To think the high volume of male abusers means some people find it hard to see when a female is an abuser?

[BraykeDance]

Having experienced first hand fairly extreme abuse from a female, I feel a bit like even in 2023 some people struggle to believe women are capable of extreme psychological, emotional and even physical abuse.

I find often people want to victim blame by implying the man must have deserved it or driven her to it. Amber Heard being a great example of an abuser where I think if she were a man people would see much more clearly that she is an abuser.

I understand men (for reasons I don't understand) have a greater tendency to be abusers in the sense of power and control; but women do this too sometimes.

I found, as someone recovering from such am abuser, that many people minimised it and almost normalised behaviour that would certainly mean prison for a man.

Which made healing as a victim a lot harder. And also made it far easier for the abuser to continue.

AIBU to think we hold women to a different standard and sometimes reframe abusive behaviour or coercive control to fit with the idea of the female victim?

No twisting, see for yourself. I'm struggling to see a single thing I've misrepresented.

Look at who has more relationships in their younger years. Is it the nice men that will treat women right and look after them or is it the exciting bad boys?
We all know that its the bad boys. So what do those that want a relationship do? They mirror the market.
For all that some women say they want a man that shows his emotions etc. most will ridicule those same men until they are either ready to settle down or are done with the bad boys and want some emotional back up to bring up the children that the bad boys have abandoned.

Young women sleeping around with attractive bad boys and then shacking up with some less attractive 'nice' schmuck as they age out of that, in order to gain the man's resources, is part of incel and MRA philosophy

Young women go after exciting bad boys
Women ridicule the nice men
They have children (and presumably lots of sex) with the bad boys
When they are older they are ready to settle down - they need the nice men to help bring up their abandoned children

It's all there in both, so please don't pretend otherwise.

@AdamRyan

Both the disgusting posts referenced in the post between me and @Ilovebudgies were actually by you funnily enough.

The first one stating Caroline Flack might have been "driven to" smashing a lamp over someone's head when they were asleep 😴

The second one, stating my abuser was probably the real victim on the basis, solely, of her being a woman.

You've bared yourself as someone who, regardless of circumstances, will twist a female abuser into the likely real victim. Moreover being quite unpleasant to the actual victim while you're doing it.

It's pretty unsurprising with that in mind that you're obsessed with Amber Heard and have infiltrated this thread to try and push an agenda.

By the sounds of your creepy and utterly baseless accusations towards me, you've given the impression you're a person who regularly engages on the topic.

Interestingly, if you look at the power wheel of abuse - behavior such as minimising, victim blaming, denial,manipulation, putting people down, false accusations, attempts at Humiliation/ goading etc are all behaviours you've openly engaged in on this thread.

The level towards which you've made this "personal" with your unnerving rage at the idea anyone dare talk about a female abuser makes me question why this is an obsession for you...

And note, I can respond to people on my thread if I want to :)

You have had to change what you wrote to make it fit, it doesn't mean that you are any less wrong.
If you believe that is what is says then you do you.

It is very clear that whatever I say you won't change your mind, And I don't have the crayons to make it clear for you.

That's fine, everyone can see what you wrote and what your thought processes are.

OK
So you basically think because you started a thread on a public message board you get to dictate the contents.

I'm not the person who's written upwards of 20 posts about Depp/Heard. I can recognise a good DARVO when I see it.

You completely misrepresented the point I made about Flack as well.

Do you guys realise this isn't making this a safe space to discuss female violence.

Going to ask for my comments to be removed, i dont want them here amongst your infighting and bickering any more.

Now my opinion is she did assault her boyfriend and therefore is abusive. But we have no idea of the surrounding circumstances and if in fact she was in a toxic relationship that drove her to it (as many posters seem completely happy to believe about Depp, despite the evidence).

My point was that many people, including you, are happy with the narrative presented by Depp in court that 5hey were in a toxic relationship and Heards manipulation of him was justification for his violence. Which he admitted to.

However Flacks case was never heard in court yet you seem very comfortable to believe she was abusive with no understanding of the circumstances at all.

I am merely pointing out the double standard in those beliefs.

As well as the wider double standard that "innocent until proven guilty/trial by media is not fair/false accusations ruin lives!" Is held up as a reason not to discuss men's bad behaviour (see threads on Russell Brand, Huw Edwards etc). The same standard doesn't apply to women, a key reason why Flack killed herself.

@Chickenkeev

But nobody is laughing at anyone? Any and all violence should be condemned.

+++

Sadly some people do think that females physically abusing males is amusing ( and that's before we even get into controlling and psychological abuse):

If you want to discuss it, maybe start another thread without unfounded assertions about famous female "abusers".

I don't think I've ever seen a poster start a thread about an abusive man in their life by equating it to a controversial famous male abuser, for example.

Maybe I'll try it and see what happens if I compare an abusive ex to Jonny Depp.

Unfortunately this is what happens if women discuss issues like this. Any issues about women being abusers and men being victims gets piled on by hardcore feminists.
I can't understand how anyone can lack so little empathy for men (or in this case a male and a female victims).

As long as they read what I wrote and not your adaptations they will be fine.

@AdamRyan

I would hope the general public would use a thread to talk about the difficulties faced by victims of female abusers would use it for that, so it's disappointing 5 or 6 people showed up here using the thread to defend Amber Heard and do little else. However I did respond to them to discuss it as I think it's relevant and there's no reason I shouldn't.

Where I stopped responding politely was when folks like yourself started telling offensive and baseless lies and completely derailing a talk many people here were benefitting from.

You've shown up here (clearly a regular habit on any thread that seemingly dares to mention Amber Heard) to act out some kind of fixation with her, which included:

Accusing me of being a fake person who habitually sets up Amber Heard threads based on no evidence of any kind (???)

Accusing me of being "obsessed" with Amber Heard when YOU are seemingly the one habitually haunting threads on her and have hijacked this one with bizarre behaviour

And now, accusing ME of DARVO when you quite literally have just come to an abuse survivor's thread where they had described quite terrifying abuse, and told them their abuser was probably the real victim!

You're engaging in abusive and toxic tactics yourself. Hence I'm left wondering if you've got an inability to even recognise abusive behaviour AT ALL. That you perhaps justify it because its something you do yourself.

No, telling an abuse survivor they probably deserved (which you did when you implied my DP was the real abuser) it isn't the same as punching or kicking but it's a kind of bullying for sure. Much like a man telling a woman she asked for it.

The other, good faith people on this thread are here to discuss a very serious issue. Certainly I made two pretty serious attempts on my life in the aftermath of that experience, but you've got an agenda that doesn't have much to do with the spirit of the thread.

You have quite a few times minimised it, implied the victim is likely to blame and resorted to being pretty nasty as if you feel if you keep going you will bully me into silence?

So here's some questions @AdamRyan

Have you smashed lamps on people's heads?
Have you repeatedly hit partners and caused them to lock themselves up to escape?
Have you stalked people?
Tried to run them over with your car?
Threatened them?
Invaded their social media?
Come at them with a knife?
Told them if they told no one would believe them?

If not, why have you showed up here to attack or minimise the experience of victims of that? Why are you reacting differently to victims of that because the person who did it was a woman?

@AdamRyan I got into a habit of defecating myself if the phone rang. I assure you we didn't ask for it, or deserve it, or "drive her to it". She was an abuser.

Listen to the people here and stop making this about defending a celebrity.

OP can start a thread about whatever she she likes. She was using an example of a known female abuser to illustrate a point.
I'm pretty sure you'll get reference to Russell brand and other famous male abusers in plenty of other threads, the difference is he is male so people just accept it, rather than feeling the need to defend someone just because they are female, which is basically OPs point.
Anyway, ages ago you said you were bowing out because you realised it was a thread to discuss the issue of male abuse, what changed?

Good video.

Why should i start a new one when i was here to discuss what the OP wanted to discuss, with people who understood?

It is YOU and other posters who have hijacked the thread for your own agendas. YOU leave and start your own thread.

@AdamRyan

Now my opinion is she did assault her boyfriend and therefore is abusive. But we have no idea of the surrounding circumstances and if in fact she was in a toxic relationship that drove her to it (as many posters seem completely happy to believe about Depp, despite the evidence)

Incorrect.

When Amber Heard (or any person in history) came out with a story they had been hit or abused, the last thing I ever would think is someone "drove them to it".

I have also seen no evidence Jonny Depp smashed a lamp over Amber Heards head when she was asleep.

The reason I believe the "narrative" that Amber Heard was an abuser is because I've bloody well heard her confessing to it!

Your impulse immediately was to imply Caroline Flack might have been "driven to it" and likewise that my abuser had been so too. You had absolutely no reason to think that, so why did you?

I have encountered many stories of abuse at work. Certainly the majority perpetrated by men. The worse I can think of though was by a women and her male partner certainly I feel wasn’t listened to in the same way .

@PhantomUnicorn

Sorry it's been derailed. I'm probably not the most patient person when it comes to this particular topic.

Possibly too hard to discuss this topic outside of a safe space, but I read your posts and did completely understand

X

'Go on Jonny, tell the world, I, Jonny am the victim of domestic violence, and see who's going to believe you'

<shudder>

And now, accusing ME of DARVO when you quite literally have just come to an abuse survivor's thread where they had described quite terrifying abuse, and told them their abuser was probably the real victim!

When did I do that? That is just not true. I talked about Caroline Flack, not you.

The article I linked shows a few things came out in Flacks inquest:

1. she admitted to the police hitting her boyfriend but said it was with a phone and the phone was damaged and had his blood on it
2. the prosecution couldn't establish she had used a fan or desk lamp as he said
3. the prosecution also couldn't establish she had cracked his skull or was trying to kill him, as he said
4. he said he was asleep, she said he wasn't
5. she was going to plead not guilty

An inquest is a court of law. What this tells me is it is not a clear cut case that she was an abuser and you have jumped straight to "guilty". And also repeated his side of things as if they were fact.

We will never find out the truth because she is dead so the evidence can't be tested in court.

I'm assuming you are triggered and projecting rather than deliberately twisting my posts. I really don't understand why you think my opinion on Flack or Heard is linked to whether I believe you, and it really isn't healthy to be so invested in what my thoughts on your situation are.

Anyway hopefully that clarifies my position. I really think you'd be better off exploring these thoughts about celebrity "abusers" and how they relate to your own situation with a professional rather than posting on the Internet. Take care x

Here is a recent example.

The correct wording is "tell them I'm a victim too of domestic violence." In other words, that it's a given fact between them that he was also violent towards her.

This was a conversation about his assault on her, which he has admitted to (although obviously minimising it). In the same conversation, she said she asked her friend Io to call the police because she really thought she was going to lose her life, and he would do it by accident.

Further context from a little later in the conversation:

"I'm just trying to point out the fact of why I said call 911 was because you had your hands on me after you threw a phone in my face, and it has gotten crazy in the past, and I truly thought, I need to stop this madness before I get hurt."

You can debate about reactive violence but you need to take into account that she had been in therapy for years at this point and her therapist was trying to help Amber Heard to leave because she was scared for her safety, based on Heard's description of the relationship over that time period, mainly based on Depp's jealousy and his behaviour while taking drugs and drinking. She didn't want to leave and she didn't want to get him in trouble or see herself as a victim. Which is very common.

Case in point re jealousy: the messages he wrote on the walls in Australia in blood, which show he was paranoid about her co-stars (Billy Bob Thornton)

So we know that Depp was violent, jealous and paranoid from an early point in the relationship. We also know he sent texts early in their relationship because she was 'nagging' him about his drug habits, expressing a desire to drown, burn and rape her corpse.

In other recordings, he says he headbutted her in the forehead, in another one she says she left for a while after he "beat the shit out of" her, and there's a whole text conversation with his assistant about Depp kicking her in front of a group of onlookers while blackout drunk/high on a private plane.

The conversation about her hitting him, she explains she hit him because he'd hurt her toes and she freaked out thinking they were "going there".

All of which is very normal in relationships where there is violence and trauma bonding.

Basing your view of an entire relationship on a few recordings made after years of being conditioned by domestic abuse, and her being argumentative rather than meek and cowed, is ridiculous.

Anyway, I just wanted to put that out there because while I don't doubt women can be abusive, I'm sick of the misogynistic narrative about Amber Heard, and the way snippets of recordings are presented out of context to further that. At least other people can see there is a lot more to it than that, since you seem to have omitted those facts.

I'm not going to post here anymore, I wish you the best OP with your healing.

Thank you for this

I will come back to this because it is an utter twisting of the story and I don't have time to point out all the falsities right now.