Page 5 | To not have anticipated this fall out... inheritance

Livelifelaughter · 2023-10-03T17:15:31+00:00

We are sorting out my mum's estate. In her Will everything is split between my brother, me and my nephew; my nephew gets a fixed amount and the rest is split equally between me and my brother. My parents had very separate finances and my dad is financially fine, not flush, can afford cleaners, help etc. He is in his mid 90s. By my calculations my brother and I will get about 25k. My mum's share in the house passes to dad but obviously that isn't a liquid asset.My dad has always known the Will contents. He has said he thinks he should get 25 per cent, he hasn't said why. I am really surprised. Given his age it seems odd. I work full time, my brother is retired. It seems as though my dad just would like something but didn't suggest it to my mum because she would probably have asked "what for?"

Bearbookagainandagain · 04/10/2023 08:13

NAL so if I'm missing something here correct me, but I thought in the UK when married assets were legally joined. So even if they maintained separate finances, technically everything your mum owned or saved during the mariage belongs to your dad anyway?
So the only thing left would be maybe premarital inheritance or assets, and even then I thought that if a life long husband/wife challenge the will they would be likely to get a share...

Jamietarttdoodoodoodoo · 04/10/2023 08:19

You say your Dad always knew what was in the will. I'm wondering if his will was leaving everything to your Mum if she hadn't died first?

beAsensible1 · 04/10/2023 08:19

Blanketpolicy · 03/10/2023 19:53

I feel sorry for your poor dad that his wife chose to give away all their family money. That must of hurt if it was unexpected.

But I guess that is what happens when spouses have separate finances there is perhaps this risk that their family money is not left to support the surviving, and bereaved, spouses final years to be as good as they possibly can be before passing to the children.

It wouldn't have sat right with me at all inheriting anything other than perhaps something sentimental before both my parents had died.

Separate finances means it’s not “family” money. It’s his money and her money. Their only shared asset was the house which she has given him.

TrashedSofa · 04/10/2023 10:46

Bearbookagainandagain · 04/10/2023 08:13

NAL so if I'm missing something here correct me, but I thought in the UK when married assets were legally joined. So even if they maintained separate finances, technically everything your mum owned or saved during the mariage belongs to your dad anyway?
So the only thing left would be maybe premarital inheritance or assets, and even then I thought that if a life long husband/wife challenge the will they would be likely to get a share...

The first paragraph is completely wrong.

It's possible he could challenge the will if it doesn't provide for him though, in England and Wales at least. I understand its harder in Scotland.

However he hasn't said anything to suggest he intends to and, put bluntly, anyone in their mid 90s who takes legal action might not live to see it through.

helpfulperson · 04/10/2023 11:53

beAsensible1 · 04/10/2023 08:10

I’d be careful because you have no idea what his will says, or if he’ll find a new partner and make them the beneficiary or the partners children.

I agree. He could also now change his will to the cat and dog home.

Also if he does need care it could well be viewed as deprivation of assets.

partypant · 04/10/2023 12:22

helpfulperson · 04/10/2023 08:08

Surely all money in a marriage is a marital asset, how can one person leave it to someone else. If they had divorced it would have been split evenly no matter if it was in one persons bank account.

It wouldn't necessarily be split evenly. The law is concerned with both parties being financially sound but that doesn't mean the same. If one person brought a lot into the marriage and there is enough money to leave the other spouse in a fair financial position without splitting all assets, the split won't be 50:50

partypant · 04/10/2023 12:23

Wasywasydoodah · 04/10/2023 08:05

My MIL married a man late in life, spent most of his money and got most of the money on his death. She also nursed him and dealt with his very unpleasant personality. But I can imagine how his kids felt…

Who gets it when she dies? If she gives it all to her dc and not to his then that's so unfair

jolaylasofia · 04/10/2023 12:33

beAsensible1 · 04/10/2023 08:10

I’d be careful because you have no idea what his will says, or if he’ll find a new partner and make them the beneficiary or the partners children.

he's in his 90s 🤪

0lga · 04/10/2023 12:55

jolaylasofia · 04/10/2023 12:33

he's in his 90s 🤪

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You may be surprised to know that many people in their 80s and 90s still care about love, companionship, physical affection and even sex. They are just as human are you are 🙄

Many men who have been looked after by a woman all their lives do very badly living alone , and they sometimes remarry very quickly.

I know a man who remarried in his 90 - to a woman he met at the gym 😁

TrashedSofa · 04/10/2023 13:16

helpfulperson · 04/10/2023 11:53

I agree. He could also now change his will to the cat and dog home.

Also if he does need care it could well be viewed as deprivation of assets.

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What could be viewed as deprivation of assets? I can't tell what you mean there.

Passepartoute · 04/10/2023 13:29

jolaylasofia · 03/10/2023 18:49

she has left him her share of the house- what's the issue?

He's entitled to a share of the whole estate. It looks as if she didn't leave it to him, he gets it automatically because it was in joint names.

Tarmaced · 04/10/2023 13:48

Passepartoute · 04/10/2023 13:29

He's entitled to a share of the whole estate. It looks as if she didn't leave it to him, he gets it automatically because it was in joint names.

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Was it in joint names?

TrashedSofa · 04/10/2023 13:57

They could've owned the house as joint tenants, in which case it passes outside the estate.

Bearbookagainandagain · 04/10/2023 14:18

TrashedSofa · 04/10/2023 10:46

The first paragraph is completely wrong.

It's possible he could challenge the will if it doesn't provide for him though, in England and Wales at least. I understand its harder in Scotland.

However he hasn't said anything to suggest he intends to and, put bluntly, anyone in their mid 90s who takes legal action might not live to see it through.

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Actually I have checked again and what I said was correct, although maybe the language wasn't the clearest.

Savings, salaries etc accumulated during the mariage are a matrimonial asset, and they automatically go to the spouse in case of death. OP and a few comments referred to "separate finances" but it doesn't mean anything for inheritance, if they are matrimonial assets then they are jointly owned by the married couple.

The only assets that are truly "owned" by one spouse only are those acquired outside the mariage, like property purchase prior to the mariage or inheritance.

I just find it surprising that there is no matrimonial assets at all beyond the house. Unless OP is only referring to non-matrimonial assets.

I'm not sure how relevant is your comment about 90-something unlikely to see through the outcome of a legal action. I'm going to assume that you didn't mean it's ok to misappropriate older people's inheritance because they are too old and vulnerable to contest the will.

EDIT: again, NAL and there might be nuances I am not getting, but my comment was definitely not "completely wrong"

ClareBlue · 04/10/2023 14:19

It's a perfectly reasonable arrangement that maybe others should follow. Your mother had her money and he had his. They bought a house together so she left her half to him so he now has the house solely in his name. The cash she had she left to her children and grandchild. This means they have got her money as she wished and she is not relying on her widowed husband to pass it on or not have it when he dies because of spending it on fees etc. Maybe not at 90, but there are numerous examples of surviving spouses getting all the assets, remarriage, and the new spouse inheriting if they die and then eventually leaving all to 2nd spouse's children, either shared or before they married. The children from the first marriage getting absolutely nothing despite the parent who died wanting them to. This is actually really common nowadays. So this strategy is pretty good imo.

TrashedSofa · 04/10/2023 14:26

Bearbookagainandagain · 04/10/2023 14:18

Actually I have checked again and what I said was correct, although maybe the language wasn't the clearest.

Savings, salaries etc accumulated during the mariage are a matrimonial asset, and they automatically go to the spouse in case of death. OP and a few comments referred to "separate finances" but it doesn't mean anything for inheritance, if they are matrimonial assets then they are jointly owned by the married couple.

The only assets that are truly "owned" by one spouse only are those acquired outside the mariage, like property purchase prior to the mariage or inheritance.

I just find it surprising that there is no matrimonial assets at all beyond the house. Unless OP is only referring to non-matrimonial assets.

I'm not sure how relevant is your comment about 90-something unlikely to see through the outcome of a legal action. I'm going to assume that you didn't mean it's ok to misappropriate older people's inheritance because they are too old and vulnerable to contest the will.

EDIT: again, NAL and there might be nuances I am not getting, but my comment was definitely not "completely wrong"

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Assumptions seem to be your problem here. Throwing around terms like misappropriation is very silly indeed when you don't have an extremely detailed understanding of the couple's finances. You're grossly oversimplifying, probably on the grounds that you sympathise with OPs DF.

It's also just plain fact that challenging wills is complex and potentially time consuming, and it would be pure self indulgence for anyone to imagine their moral take or that of someone else has any bearing there. OP has said nothing to suggest her DF wishes to challenge the will legally, and he certainly wouldn't be the first person of advanced years to choose not to pursue a complex legal process due to age.

steppemum · 04/10/2023 14:28

my understanding (and I am not a lawyer) is that if it is in joint names then it belongs to both eg bank account and house.

But anything which is in your name eg a savings account in your name, goes according to the will. So I could leave all my savings to my dc, but the house would automatically go to my dh

This only applies if there is a will of course. Otherwise it goes to the spouse.

steppemum · 04/10/2023 14:29

This is certainly how it is viewed for nursing home fees.

Different in a divorce, when everything is counted apart from pretty specific things

Hummingbird233 · 04/10/2023 14:32

He should have raised it with your mum. It's no good now him having the issue without two when you're just going along with your mum's wishes.

He had the chance to raise it and chose not to. That's on him. It doesn't make sense at all to be giving family money to a 95 yr old who can already sustain their lifestyle. It will just go to the tax man or care system.

HOWEVER is there a chance he'd be angry and cut you out of his will? If so, then I'd just give him 25% given it isn't huge amounts.

ClareBlue · 04/10/2023 14:37

That's how I understand it too. That's another reason why they always want housing in both names when you are married, so you can not give it away on death when your spouse lives there. But individually owned assets can be willed to someone other than your spouse. Though you can not disinherited your children in Ireland by law. So you can only will away up to 30 %, I think, to your friend in the pub and the rest has to go to a surviving parent or to the children. The parent assumed to be your spouse, of course, in Ireland. That's only recently been changed😂

AppleDumplingWithCustard · 04/10/2023 15:30

So many people here stating their own dubious version of the law with such certainty. 🤷‍♀️

Jellycats4life · 04/10/2023 16:07

Hummingbird233 · 04/10/2023 14:32

He should have raised it with your mum. It's no good now him having the issue without two when you're just going along with your mum's wishes.

He had the chance to raise it and chose not to. That's on him. It doesn't make sense at all to be giving family money to a 95 yr old who can already sustain their lifestyle. It will just go to the tax man or care system.

HOWEVER is there a chance he'd be angry and cut you out of his will? If so, then I'd just give him 25% given it isn't huge amounts.

I agree, and it seems rather sneaky to have said nothing while his wife was alive, only to try to railroad/guilt trip his kids into handing over the cash now she’s gone.

BeetleDeuce · 04/10/2023 16:14

I would have assumed this was deprivation of assets too. I mean, if they were both alive then they wouldn’t be able to give half their money away, would they? It’s a bit of a baffling one to me.

jolaylasofia · 04/10/2023 18:51

BeetleDeuce · 04/10/2023 16:14

I would have assumed this was deprivation of assets too. I mean, if they were both alive then they wouldn’t be able to give half their money away, would they? It’s a bit of a baffling one to me.

well it's not joint money, it was her personal money belonging to her only- i presume was in a personal account in her name

SleepingStandingUp · 04/10/2023 19:10

Ponderingwindow · 03/10/2023 18:31

I find it odd when someone dies and their entire estate or at least the bulk of their estate doesn’t go to their spouse . The children will eventually inherit after the remaining spouse does, but the spouse should have access to the resources in the interim.

however, that isn’t how the mother wrote the will and the husband had the chance to object while she was alive. I would respect her wishes.

On the other hand, if the widowed spouse then gets remarried, it can all end up passing to the new partner and the kids get nothing. You might want DH to have it all but presumably on the logic it then goes to the kids, not the newer younger you.