DS's school trip was offered on a 'first come first serve' basis and is now being drawn at random from a hat

[Worriedaandconfused]

AIBU to think the school should honour the first come first serve basis they initially stated for allocating places on the school trip?

They have, due to a 'huge response' of requested places, decided to draw names at random on Friday.

After promising my child a place and ensuring I handed the form in promptly to the teacher (in fairness, it sounds like a lot of other parents did, too), I'm now going to have to explain to my 4 year old he's unlikely to have a place.

How do your own DC's schools handle situations like this where there's limited places and lots of interest?

They have obviously discovered that the first come first served system won't work due to the huge response at the same time! Therefore the only fair way if to draw out names.

Obviously some kids will be disappointed. Your pique at it maybe being yours is ridiculous. First come first served is patently more unfair than drawing out names. It means that kids whose parents have ready cash or are better organised are more likely to benefit. In any case they changed their mind. They are entitled to do so. Complaining won't change the outcome.

And you think first come first served is fair on the others?

Just in general-I wish people would stop moaning about schools.

If some kids get to go on a school trip then it is guaranteed that those remaining will get a fun time at school to make up for it. The day will be play and reward based, there'll be treats, there'll be a film, there'll be games, prizes, whatever.

I've run both trips and sympathy days in class for those who couldn't go on the trip. The kids in school have the best fun ever in a comfortable familiar surrounding and then the kids on the trip return either soaking wet, or puking from the bus, or bored brainless by the ones who couldn't behave or knackered because they didn't stop walking all day, or disappointed because they couldn't hear what was being said by some random, or because they spent more than half the day queuing for something shit, or they arrive back seven hours late because of traffic jams caused by Broken Britain.
Then when you're chatting about it all the next day, the kids who went on the trip start moaning that it's not fair about all the fun stuff they missed at school. Yes, they do that behind parents' backs after parents have filled in the form and paid and packed a lunch and patted themselves on the back for doing right by their kids.

Stop moaning about schools. They are all kids and they all get cared for to the absolute best of any school's ability.

Just in general-I wish people would stop moaning about schools.

Constructive criticism should be welcomed. Excluding half a class of Y4 is ridiculous and unnecessary.

Kids being delighted to be left behind while the ones on trip are miserable is not something I have ever witnessed for a start, and it's not the majority.

In most cases, movies and games and haribo hunts etc are only exciting when they make you miss a Math lesson, not when you could be doing something fun.

It's also fine for financially comfortable families if the child misses something, they'll just go on a trip for a long weekend to compensate. Not so great for those who have nothing else on offer.

Just another example of how school never plan. It amazes me how they don't see things like this happening.

Shame on everyone saying OP is to blame. The child is 4 yrs old, the school should offer the trip to all or non.

First come first served is fine if it means people who give in the permission slip on Tuesday morning get priority over people who wait until Friday pick up. It doesn’t really work if everybody sent their child into school with a permission slip on Tuesday morning as then it’s really just luck as to who manages to catch the teacher first whilst dropping off or which order she collects them from. If they were given to teachers across multiple classes first thing in the morning how do you know whether ChildA in Yr R gave their slip to the teacher a minute before or a minute after Child B in Yr 1 in order to decide which children make the list.

It sounds like more children than the trip could accommodate all came in with permission slips on Tuesday morning which makes it very tricky to fairly decide which children were technically ‘first’ or ‘last’ etc. In this instance I therefore think names out of a hat seems reasonable.

If they have spaces left on the KS2 trip, they could in theory give left over spaces to Y2 or give the remaining spaces to KS1 students.

That's shocking that some kids will miss out! If my childs name didnt get picked i wouldnt sent them to school on the day of the trip and have our own trip out insted! I think its really mean its not a whole class or year school trip.

Why tell him he’s got a place? Please don’t complain to school - this is why more and more teachers don’t want to take children on trips. Huge amount of extra work for entitles parents. It’s never enough

Would absolutely drive me mad at that age that they can’t find a way to take everyone in the class

You are stupid. Who promises their 4 year old something that may not be in their power to give them? However, I also think the school shouldn't
be planning trips for 4 year olds that ALL reception can go on. My son is in year 6 and we have never had a trip where kids are invited but don't get a place. The only reason this should happen is when it's some big experience that a lot of the children would benefit from and a lot couldn't get it any other way. Even then I think its questionable in primary. Like by all means restrict who it's open to - one year group or something, but to then not included everyone is wrong.

He's unlikely to even remember or notice, four year old live very much in the now.

Absolutely the school is in the wrong and as you were first your child should go. Going forward they should draw out of a hat if it seems like more will respond than spaces, but they can’t just change their tune. Setting a very bad example for kids just having started school. I’d complain. Good luck.

I’d wait to hear whether your son gets a place. Then whether he gets on it or not I’d complain about the fact at 4 years old they’re arranging trips that exclude some children…. If this happened to my DC I’d keep them off that day and take them there myself

Did you read it properly? She said he had a place.

Yanbu because they should all go. They shouldn't organise a trip that only a few can go on.

@stichguru, there's really no need for name calling, is there? 🙄 You clearly haven't read any of my most up to date posts where I explained I never actually 'promised' him as such, but after discussing the trip with him said that we'll let him go. He was aware that we put the money in the envelope and that I handed it to the teacher. So, like all the other 4 year olds whose parents did that, they all think they have a place. Now it's down to us as parents to explain they're missing out and only some children from the class will be going.

And for those who say they won't even notice, yes they will. They're going into school as normal in the morning and will be back by 12:30, so will be able to tell the children left behind all about before the end of the day. 👍🏻

It’s normal to draw the names out of a hat for popular trips. They should have said a random draw at the start but maybe they didn’t realise it would be so popular. I guess you’ll need to manage expectations and explain to your DS that everyone put the form in early - lesson learned…. Hopefully he’ll get a place on the trip.

We once offered trips on a first come first served basis at school, handed the letters out during the day and students texted home and parents brought money in at lunchtime and the end of the day. Some kids whose parents were at work didn’t even get the chance to hand the letters to their parents that night, never mind bring the money in the next morning. And some parents needed to wait until payday to be able to get the cash out. I know they should have said names first, but unless you were bringing the money in on the day the letters were given out, you really can’t rely on being the first handing them back in. Plus when it’s names out of the hat, the school gets some control over who goes which I know some people won’t like, but I won’t run trips now as I can’t trust some of my pupils not to truant and be abusive in school, so I don’t trust taking them out of school. Our school won’t allow us to stop poorly behaved students from attending, and so the lovely kids miss out as I’m not willing to take the badly behaved ones. It’s me that would be responsible for them, and I honestly think some would run away.

Do they not ask parent volunteers to attend the trips for year olds so they can accommodate every child in the year group? It is pretty unfair of them to offer a trip if they can't manage to take the whole class. I get some kids may not want to go or parents who can't afford the cost. Are they going to reimburse the parents who have paid if their kid isn't chosen to go?

Out of a hat is obviously fairer for everyone, and should have been the default from the start. But it is what it is. Don't get so worked up about it - the outcomes are (1) your child gets a place on the trip and has a fab time; (2) your child doesn't get picked, along with many others I expect so they won't be left out anyway - just part of another cohort of kids that also aren't going.

The school will likely put on something fun in school for those kids that aren't picked for the trip (if it is during school hours) and they will make it fun for all.

FCFS is an awful way of working it. I work FT as does DH and we are not on the playground often as we have to rely on breakfast and ASC. It means things like handing in forms to the teacher is hard for us - we have to hope DS will remember to hand it in following breakfast club, but he's only small and it typically ends up in his school bag for days on end! I equally can't reply to emails to school as quickly - I'm in meetings most of the day, and DH is a teacher so doesn't have access to his phone for his contact hours. FCFS is harder for working families, and families that are lower income and can't commit to a deposit until payday etc.

They will notice, of course. Hopefully the teachers can plan something really fun for the few kids at school that morning.

@MrsRaspberry, I would assume the payments will be returned to the children to don't get chosen. The letter does say payment is non-refundable but assume that's for the parents that change this mind or whose children are unwell on the day and can't make it.

@AllstarFacilier, I think it's quite different when the children are old enough to know it's their own behaviour that's resulted in them not having/attending trips. The children in my son's class are 4 and 5 so slightly different set of circumstances.

@BookSuperWorm, I completely understand that names at random is the fairest way to decide on names at this point, but think that's how it should have been organised from the start so parents know where they stand. It's annoying, as others have pointed out, that they've changed the goal post after the fact.

Then there's the element of R/KS1 parents having an extended deadline to hand in forms whereas KS2 children are still only being offered places for their theatre visit on a FCFS basis.

@Spinet, a few people have suggested on the thread that, at 4, he won't remember the trips even happening so wanted to address that. Only 10 children from each class will be going so the others will presumably will have their normal day as over 2/3 of the class will still be there. As they are in reception, it's usually lots of play-based/explorative activities anyway.

I think that sort of first come first served is unfair - it very clearly disadvantages a lot of people.

At my (secondary) school, back in the Dark Ages, you took in the form with a cheque for the deposit, but crucially it wasn't banked until later so it didn't matter if it wasn't payday.

What annoyed me about the aforementioned history trip was that we handed in cheques for a "names out of the hat" process and they WERE banked and then the school took it on themselves to use the money for another camping trip which ds didn't want to go on but was "compulsory". I did think that was out of order.