Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DS's school trip was offered on a 'first come first serve' basis and is now being drawn at random from a hat

315 replies

Worriedaandconfused · 03/10/2023 11:50

AIBU to think the school should honour the first come first serve basis they initially stated for allocating places on the school trip?

They have, due to a 'huge response' of requested places, decided to draw names at random on Friday.

After promising my child a place and ensuring I handed the form in promptly to the teacher (in fairness, it sounds like a lot of other parents did, too), I'm now going to have to explain to my 4 year old he's unlikely to have a place.

How do your own DC's schools handle situations like this where there's limited places and lots of interest?

OP posts:
Snkt · 03/10/2023 22:49

Why are there limited places? If you can’t organise something for everyone just don’t. Poor performance from them.
I don’t think names out of the hat is the fairest but whatever way they go with they have to stick it out.
I would speak to other parents see what they think and then maybe speak to the school

CharlotteBog · 03/10/2023 23:50

Snkt · 03/10/2023 22:49

Why are there limited places? If you can’t organise something for everyone just don’t. Poor performance from them.
I don’t think names out of the hat is the fairest but whatever way they go with they have to stick it out.
I would speak to other parents see what they think and then maybe speak to the school

I think OP said the school was given a limited number of tickets for an event.

CrazyHamsterLady · 03/10/2023 23:53

YABU. My daughter’s school always used to do this as they simply didn’t have enough staff to take all the kids.

Hummingbird233 · 04/10/2023 00:03

I'd be complaining to the school. Why would they arrange a trip that isn't accessible for all children? That's awful.

Is your 4 year old really that bothered though? Mine wouldn't have known what a school trip was at 4 yrs.

What are they expecting left out children to do?

LargeglassofRosePlease · 04/10/2023 07:38

grass67 · 03/10/2023 17:32

OP, I say this in the kindest way possible, but I think you need an intervention in primary school etiquette. it will save you a whole load of stress and upset. There were too many applicants, and as a pp poster suggested the forms went out electrically a day before, so you weren't first. School choose to "out of a hat" you just have to roll with it.
Is it fair? no do I trust school? no but accepting how shitty school is will save you 6 plus years of anxiety. Start a thread on shitty primary school experiences ...that will include..poorly behaved children getting star of the week ( done to encourage child to be nice) Governors children being house captains etc etc

But I urge to you understand that parents who really want their children to come first (i was one, a SAHM) will be advantaged, they can fill the form in fast, they can afford to pay the fee...they are not the children on free school meals, who's parents can't afford it ,or do not care. Or the parents who are stuck at work and miss the message. WE all wan't our children to be first, but you need to manage your expectations and look around you.

I sent extra eggs and craft items on Easter egg day...why?... because I felt strongly for the children who's parents wouldn't or couldn't help. my children remember this more than winning... I also paid for extra curricular activities for FSMC.

Great post.

I know it’s early and I’ve not slept well but what’s FSMC ? I presume it’s for disadvantaged children and sounds ignorant, but how do you know this information if so? That was very kind of you
but isn’t it confidential?
Apologies for poor grammar and English… I am so tired 🥱

3luckystars · 04/10/2023 07:46

She just gave the money to the principal/teacher and let them sort out who needs it. I’d have done it that way anyway.

BusyMum47 · 04/10/2023 07:48

@Worriedaandconfused
Bloody hell - that's a dreadful (& rare!) approach for a Primary School to take!

Secondary School is often limited numbers, 1st come &/or names from hat etc which is fine - not all kids want the trips, they're more resilient to cope if not chosen & don't feel left out if they don't go as there are loads that don't.

But Primary?? Wow. That should be inclusive - particularly at age 4!! I work in a Primary School & I've never heard of trips being organised that way. It's either all or none. And if it's limited tickets to something, they're allocated to a particular year/class & the kids get their chance to go when they're in that year/class. End of!

sockarefootwear · 04/10/2023 07:54

Worriedaandconfused · 03/10/2023 15:06

@PrincessHoneysuckle, I’m interested to know if anyone ever complained and if the school found a fairer alternative?

As PPs have pointed out, drawing names out of a hat can be just as unfair if it’s the same names all of the time. I would really like to suggest an alternative way of allocating places if they aren’t willing to offer to only one class so all the children are given the opportunity to attend.

We had this a couple of times at my DC school. The letters always said FCFS but if the trip was oversubscribed there was always a follow up letter to say that names would be drawn out of a hat. I don't know if this was to make it fairer to those who were not in a position to get their slips in immediately, or (more likely) just that the slips were all collected together and no record made of when each one was handed in. After DD and a few of her friends missed out several times and other groups of children seemed to always get a place, a few parents spoke to the school and it was agreed that children who missed applied for one trip but missed out would be given priority on the next trip they applied for.

RoseAndRose · 04/10/2023 08:01

I think it's poor show to have trips that cannot accommodate everyone.

But when they exist, then it has to be out of a hat.

First come first served is unfair - for the many reasons listed here. Tried once when I was at school, and the parents of those on the bus from the outlying villages (who arrived slightly late as that's how LA set up the bus that served several schools) revolted big time, as it meant their DC would have no chance ever. Decision immediately reversed

And yes it caused some chuntering from those who had been early and organised, but was the right decision.

OP: you explain it to him exactly as you would have explained it if you were one of the ones who returned the form bright and early but not quite early enough. You never had a place, can't be sure you might have done in other circs, so you just tell DC and you all move on.

OnAFrolicOfMyOwn · 04/10/2023 08:05

They should arrange an alternative trip for those who miss out on this one.

Crazycrazylady · 04/10/2023 08:42

I think everyone will agree that the first come first served was a horrendous idea . I think random allocation is the only fair way but in our school they do it in front of the class so at least everyone can see that it's not fixed in some way.

Wheelz46 · 04/10/2023 09:33

@Worriedaandconfused It's not really feasible to ask another parent to drop off the permission slip. As the kids are only in reception, not all parents will know each other overly well and even if they do, what if there own kid wants to go and they happen to be number 10 in line with 2 permission slips. Then you have those who are dropped off from wrap around care, who might have multiple children to drop off, you can't expect them to try and get there first.

The school have realised they made a mistake and have rectified that mistake to the fairest way possible, which is pulling names from a hat.

If school regularly choose trips that cannot accommodate the full class, then putting in a hat is the fairest way. Perhaps the children who went on the last trip only enter the hat if there is still spaces available, that way all children may then get the opportunity to attend an out of school activity.

Sartre · 04/10/2023 10:03

Maybe everyone handed the form in straight away so names out of a hat is the only fair way?

Sartre · 04/10/2023 10:04

I should say my DC’s school (secondary) put it on the app so once the places are all filled, it disappears from the app.

Isthisasgoodasitis · 04/10/2023 10:22

I can not believe the amount of people blaming you!!! I’m sure given the post this is the first time you have dealt with this so wouldn’t have known any different sadly this is the norm to come and the first time a school trip was booked it got me too despite me completing the form and submitting it paid in full before we even went home so it was gone the same day and somehow my child didn’t get a place I was enraged it was before this forum as she’s 28 now however I have a 4 year old also so now I don’t promise a place I submit promptly but so as I did with my oldest I took her to the destination on a day that suited me through the week so that she did not miss out we did London zoo the natural history museum and iron bridge together like this and the school had to suck up the absence 🤣

ILoveCats89 · 04/10/2023 10:34

So if he doesn't get to go, and you've paid, do you get your money back??

Ultravox · 04/10/2023 10:35

First come first served is never a good system. What if someone is off ill the day the forms are handed out?
Best system is to give a reasonable deadline and then names out of a hat.

Mothership4two · 04/10/2023 10:37

Sounds like this trip was unexpectedly oversubscribed. Maybe too many forms were handed in at the same time and so the only fair way to do it is a random draw? You might have been envelope number 31 opened and not got a place anyway. I'm not sure why you thought your child would be guaranteed a place OP (and told them) or how they will cherry-pick names out of a hat? Of course all the children should have been offered a place, but maybe in the past not all the spaces were filled on similar trips so they don't want to waste any? I'm sure a four year old would get over being in the disappointed group pretty quickly and, as others have said on this thread, you or a family member could take him along yourselves if you feel really strongly about him seeing it.

TheWomanTheyCallJayne · 04/10/2023 10:39

I’m so glad I’m passed all this. My kids would definitely have missed out however on the ball I was as they were transported in because of distance.
Hat done properly is fairer
but its all awful and no school should be only taking some 4 year olds anyway.

IndysMamaRex · 04/10/2023 10:42

Not good for the school to offer a trip if all the kids in class can’t attend. I’m make a complaint. Sadly name out of hat seems to be the fairest way I’m this situation but that whole thing could have easily been avoided by the school actually thinking it through

WimbyAce · 04/10/2023 10:47

This sounds awful, a school trip where they can't all go is not on in my book.

Wheresmypal · 04/10/2023 10:50

NameChange30 · 03/10/2023 11:55

They're doing a school trip for 4yos and can't accommodate everyone? That's shit. It should be for all of none. They're 4 FFS.

Exactly this. I’ve never heard of such a thing!

Anyotherdude · 04/10/2023 10:51

I agree that pulling names from a hat is fairer, but since it was initially offered on the basis of first come first served, I don’t think that OP was wrong to promise her 4-year old that she would get the form in as quickly as possible to make sure they would get on the activity!
However, after explaining the reason for the change to DC (unfortunately, all the other mummies and daddies did the same), she should keep this experience in mind going forward, and remember that school rules and decisions are as capricious as the teachers who make them!

celticprincess · 04/10/2023 11:00

I hate first come first served as if your child goes to breakfast club they’re school earlier than the child arriving at normal time. And if they’re off sick that day I’d basically tough luck. Names out of a hat is fairer but I’m surprised at reception doing this. Usually it’s expensive residential type trips that come to names out of a hat. They shouldn’t be organising something for some reception and not all. We’ve had club spaces being first come first served or names from a hat.

Ippagoggy · 04/10/2023 11:00

I think the school should cancel the trip and find somewhere that can accommodate everyone. Maybe the parents can club together to make this happen?

If that fails, then a hat is probably fairer than FCFS. Unfortunately, think the best you can do is use this as a 'learning experience' that sometimes things are out of control and we just have to deal with it. This kind of rubbish will keep happening in life so may as well build up little one's resilience.