To think that 14 year olds don’t need educated on sex positions?

[fourelementary]

My dd doesn’t want to go to school this afternoon as she is embarrassed to go to her sex education lesson. I spoke to her about how it was good that young people were being taught about sex and she went into more detail about why she is uncomfortable.
Last week they discussed sexual positions and different ways to have sex including anal. She was mortified and said she doesn’t mind knowing about sex (we’ve always been honest about the birds and the bees from a young age anyway) but she finds this awkward and far too much information about which she has absolutely no interest currently.

I am no prude, but was quite shocked at the detail being discussed and agree with her it’s unnecessary for this age group.

You don’t need to exhaustively teach everything a child could potentially be exposed to/disturbed by. You can teach them about their boundaries, that if they are disturbed by something they’ve seen, then this is how to manage it, and so on.

They may not see it and be disturbed by it. They may be asked by a “loving” boyfriend because they can’t get pregnant that way, they may be pressured to consent because “everyone’s doing it”, they may find themselves having consensual sex and find a hand round their throat. Surely it’s better they’ve had the opportunity to think about what they’re ok with or not before being in that position.

This is meaningless word salad.

Nobody is using the word ‘sodomy’ in an educational context because it has very specific connotations relating to biblical sin / sodomy laws etc. The fact that you insist on using that term is a homophobic dog whistle, and if that isn’t your intention I strongly suggest you stop choosing such a deliberately loaded term.

Sodomy as a word does strongly imply a religious, homophobic agenda when combined with other comments

People will say "sodomized with objects" as well

And sex toys aren't grim...

Sex education is so so important. As someone who works with victims of sexual abuse let me tell you abusers will utilise a lack of knowledge to their advantage. This is to the point where their defence will suggest the child wasn’t raped because they described the penis as a train going in their tunnel (vagina) as an abuser will have used this language, so even though the child is pointing as their genitals the defence are saying they could have been playing with toy trains.
To say kids are being sexualised by sex education is ridiculous. Look at music videos about anacondas. Look at the average age kids first see porn. Look at statistics as to
how many teenage girls talk about being strangled as being part of their “normal” sexual interactions. If they’re already being exposed we have a duty to explain what’s appropriate.
And yes they’ll always be the “well I educate myself kids at home” but they’ll be many that don’t have that education, often the most vulnerable, and the school can’t vet the home sex education provided for each kid.

It is not helpful for children to be unaware of these things. Knowledge is power, it applies to kids as well as adults. If you willfully deny them that knowledge, you are doing them a massive disservice. They NEED to know these things because they are out in the world, they will mix with all sorts and you won't have control. So, they need knowledge to protect themselves and make informed decisions.

I really don't see how saying I protect my children from watching porn, is superior.
I limit their Internet use at home (which also has the strictest protections on it. I couldn't even watch pornhub!) They don't actually bother using their phones much anyway. They go days without charging them. They have lots of interests and hobbies that don't involve screens.
My DD has told me she doesn't want to know too much yet and that she's removed herself on the rare occasion other kids have wanted to talk about "gross stuff" That's her decision.
My DS watched something on YouTube that wasn't even too bad, but he came to tell me about it because he said it felt wrong and we talked about how it made him feel and why people post these things.
I'm baffled by how any of this is me being superior!

You've said it yourself though, they are at least hearing stuff. Personally I'd rather my kids learn from a teacher or myself rather than 2nd hand from dubious sources. You can't stop them hearing, seeing or even doing this stuff, you can control how they learn about it.

No, I can't. In the same way my parents couldn't safeguard me.

Because, when I was 14, they weren't with me every moment of every day. I went to friends houses. I went to school. I went on school trips. These are all places where things I should have been safeguarded against happened. Especially school trips. OK, so porn in the late 80's was much more of the top shelf variety, but it shows how it is shown amongst school kids. A trip to France, I think every boy on the trip came home with at least one magazine and VHS tape!

Any parent who thinks their sweet, respectful 14 year old son has never seen porn is naive in the extreme.

“They may be asked by a “loving” boyfriend because they can’t get pregnant that way, they may be pressured to consent because “everyone’s doing it”, they may find themselves having consensual sex and find a hand round their throat. Surely it’s better they’ve had the opportunity to think about what they’re ok with or not before being in that position.”

The thing is that really it’s the same vibe of arguments being used to defend this explicit level of sex education.

“They may be asked by a “loving” boyfriend because they can’t get pregnant that way,
you should learn about anal and asphyxia from your caring teacher where you can’t be traumatised
they may be pressured to consent because “everyone’s doing it”,
the rest of the class are learning about it and ALL their parents think it’s a grand idea
they may find themselves having consensual sex and find a hand round their throat.
They may go to the lesson expecting to learn less niche and threatening sex Ed and then be subjected to anal penetration and kink
Surely it’s better they’ve had the opportunity to think about what they’re ok with or not before being in that position.”
most parents have said they don’t think it’s a good idea and many of the children might opt out if they could.

I feel so old sometimes (but grateful) there was no porn where I grew up aside from the scenes in books which you had to picture in your head, so 14 year old me had books like The Valley of Horses for example.

Later on Black Lace and other more explicit fiction, but no porn.

I got Dial Up in early 2000's but Porn and Dial-Up do not mix.

I only watche Porn since I had Broadband and there are lots of genres of it; but since I am not a teenager I know it is acting not real, it is worrying how many young teens have access to it as they may think rough rapey sex is mainstream and not all sex is like this or tbh porn either.

Re Sex Ed; I think knowing what types of Birth Control (and where to get them yourself) is important plus Consent (no pressure to have sex of any kind whether boy or girl) positions not so much at 14. I think 14 far too young for sex, but if some teenagers are going to they need information, not porn which is acting.

It's amazing how many people are taking

"Kids need to be aware of these things so if they are confronted with it they have the tools to understand what it is, the argument for saying No and, if they do want to do it, how to do it safely. This is also important because of gay relationships"

As

"Teachers are encouraging kids to have anal sex and telling them everyone does it"

indeed - utterly bonkers

The problem arises when you have an unskilled teacher who thinks they're saying A but ends up actually saying B.

@Ohthatsabitshit Learning in a safe school environment, where you aren’t in the situation and having to negotiate with the person you’re with, from a trusted adult, where you can ask questions (even in your own mind if not out loud), where consent is front and centre. Being given factual information, being able to identify strategies to say “no”, being able to decide ahead of time that something isn’t for you - I’m struggling to see why that’s a bad thing.

And given the way sex is portrayed in mainstream media, much less in the porn industry, and the number of girls (and grown women) who accept choking as part and parcel of sex tells us that such practices are hardly considered kink nowadays.

“where consent is front and centre. Being given factual information, being able to identify strategies to say “no”, being able to decide ahead of time that something isn’t for you - I’m struggling to see why that’s a bad thing. “

^If a 14 year old is saying I don’t want to do that class, because they were uncomfortable with the sexual
discussions in a previous class, is that no them saying “no” and exercising consent?

I think for me there is a massive grey sections between what I find acceptable and not acceptable with regards to swx education, but I do think by 14 if a child is clearly saying they do not want to do the class because of their previous uncomfortable experience it should’ve listened to.

I think the problem is a lot of people are fearful of the idea that their teenagers might grow up into adults who enjoy "deviant" acts (they may be gay, they may have kinks, they may be promiscuous, or otherwise engage in behaviour outside of the generally accepted one-man-one-woman-ideally-in-marriage -PIV-only default).

And they find that shameful, and so want to portray more unorthodox sexual acts - like anal sex - as unhealthy, and misogynistic, when it's not the act that is unhealthy, misogynistic etc but rather the context of the relationship that act is being undertaken in. Sexual acts are neutral morally and whatever anyone chooses to get up to in the bedroom is completely ok as long as everyone involved is practicing safely, happy, and enthusiastically consenting. If there is pressure, if there is coercion, if there is abuse, THAT is what is wrong, not anal sex.

So they start to spread rumours that "children are being taught how to do anal sex and freaky sex positions in school" (which is not the case when it is properly looked at) in the hope that everyone realises how deviant and wrong the act of anal sex is and why anyone who does it is a danger to children and the people teaching this are after your kids. It's not completely dissimilar to narratives peddled about homosexuality some decades ago.

And while there is absolutely a balance to be struck between properly arming teenagers with information vs introducing ideas to children and pre-teens too early, I don't think a lot of reactions are coming from that place, even though ostensibly they say they are. Some of the language used on this thread betrays the underlying feelings.

+I think for me there is a massive grey sections between what I find acceptable and not acceptable with regards to swx education, but I do think by 14 if a child is clearly saying they do not want to do the class because of their previous uncomfortable experience it should’ve listened to.*

I don’t disagree with you - I’d certainly listen to my child at any age regarding their comfort level, but that doesn’t mean I disagree with the content generally. I’ve already said I monitor what’s being offered at school in terms of sex ed and would listen to my child if they felt they didn’t want to participate. I’d also be telling the school why she felt uncomfortable and making sure I filled in the gaps caused by her non-attendance.

That's a different conversation though. I don't think many people would advocate for forcing a child who has voiced a disagreement about it to be involved. That's another conversation again. But denying the information from the masses is monumentally stupid and damaging. Sex ed is hugely, massively important. And (sadly) needed so much younger. I'm having this convo here, while also talking about Santa!

@Flickersy

Oh I agree

There's a real sense of "anything outside of PIV is wrong" and anyone with kinks being wrong.

The use of the word deviant has come up several times. There was a definite feel of homophobia from some posts which I think have all now been deleted. Acts called "not normal" rather than "not mainstream".

But this is MN so I'm not surprised tbh

No wonder so many young women are on OnlyFans nowadays.

I think you'll have to expand on this.

Because they had sex education at 14?

Because their parents think they don't/can't see porn?

Because anal sex is being discussed by teachers in appropriate classes?

There is no "appropriate" class for a teacher or any non-parent adult to teach children to have anal sex.

But you know, I'm working from the assumption that these children have parents who care about them. Many, many children do not, and so many parents expect the schools to raise their children for them. When parents abdicate their role in the child's life, this kind of thing will happen to them.

Which is why so many girls are becoming porn stars. They are fed a steady diet of "all sex is good, have lots of sex, sex makes you valuable, there should be no responsibilities or rules around sex, and if you get pregnant just have abortions as birth control." These are the same values that told me, when I was young, that promiscuity was "empowering." When I was left feeling empty and used, I was told that was "internalized misogyny" and not that I somehow felt I should be valued and respected.

I really, really fear for and am sad for young girls today. Being nothing but a "bonus hole" is going to take a real toll on them. And I place the blame where it belongs: on lazy, neglectful parents.

It's a good job no school is actually teaching children to have anal sex then isn't it.

I'm bemused at the amount of people telling me that my children have definitely watched porn 😆 Like my kids are just secretive lodgers living in my house.

Does it matter if someone has many sexual partners? While you may have ended up feeling empty because of your own behaviour, this isn't true for most. And I see no one suggesting that abortions be used as contraception.

And I think young women ending up on only fans is due to multiple, complex issues - more to do with the money than how they were bought up.

But again. No one is teaching them how to have anal sex.

But then, I guess I am posting as a lazy neglectful parent who is a groomer on the side.