AIBU or is mumsnet slowly being infiltrated by women hating men.

[NotSuchASmugMarried]

Am I imagining things or is it getting worse here. Every single time we post something a poster will immediately pop up and hijack the thread with a pro-men agenda instead of actually contributing to the thread.

Please tell me if you agree. I can't possibly be the only one who thinks this.

When have I said I was a man?

@Kemper

if you’re not a man then the patriarchy has done a phenomenal job on you!

Fine, but what's your point?

Are you arguing that one woman being horrible to another woman is equivalent to millennia of institutionalised discrimination against women as a class by men as a class?

It's really not the same thing.

People of both sexes are horrible to one another all the time for all sorts of reasons. That's unpleasant but not remotely similar to the built in, institutionalised sexual inequalities that exist in our society.

Oh, so because I’m not falling in line with you like a good sister I’m brainwashed by the “patriarchy”?

Bloody hell, are you actually claiming to be a woman?

No one is more bothered by women sticking together than men who hate women. 🙄

I agree with the idea in 'The Power' that the only reason men are more violent is because they are usually stronger. If women were stronger I am sure they would be just as violent. I don't think the sexes are different in any moral way, it's just that we are animals. So the strong bully and predate upon the weak. That means women are most often the victims, but sometimes vulnerable men too. I think the problems of violence are a human one rather than just the male sex. I'm a woman but refuse to believe that I am more vulnerable than a teenage boy, I'd probably intervene to protect one if I saw them being harassed on the street at night. In fact, I have done.

And the thread devolves in to the very thing that was said in the first few pages... that when people on this site disagree with the acceptable party line, they're accused of being a man.

No agreeing with you doesn't devalue someones sex.

Testosterone.

@AccidentallyWesAnderson I'm not sure. Some women have more testosterone, but I don't think it makes them aggressive. The physical differences in strength are key to the evolution of roles, stereotypes and social behaviour in my view. Women present as less aggressive because that's been key to their survival. The premise of 'The Power' was that women developed the ability to electrocute men. In the book this led to women raping, killing and torturing just as men have done. I think the book suggests the issues of control and dominance are a shared problem of humanity, and not just the problem of men.

OK @Kemper I'll bite.

You seem very confident feminists are all just high-handedly setting out to embarrass women (or men) who don't agree with their worldview, and don't tolerate dissent.

What credible arguments can you therefore put forward in favour of the following assertions:

• That the gender pay gap is beneficial to women overall
• That its better for women to remain in the home as opposed to working
• That mothers who do work damage their children's health or wellbeing

I'd like to hear what we're all missing.

It might depend on the various whole hormonal bath for each individual and what their receptors are up to.

Since peri kicked in hard it’s been a bloody roller coaster and I have a new appreciation for how little of me is actually me, and how much of who I am depends on which hormone is currently throwing a hissy fit and which receptors aren’t even trying to make an effort to catch the right molecules.

I know if I misjudge my teeny blob of testosterone and put slightly too much on there’s a mild aggression I don’t normally feel. As well as an odd sensation of being cut off from my usual range of feelings.

If I used a bit too high of a dose for a week I suspect I could turn Hulk-like in attitude. And then get the shit kicked out of me cos I have the muscle tone of a slightly under set jelly.

I do remember one little fact I remember reading. When divorce became legal and more socially acceptable the number of men dying from a poisoning administered by their wives noticeably dropped. So while women may not be overtly violent, they can certainly do a fatal amount of harm if push comes to shove. They adapt their methods to better fit their physical limitations when at war with a man. I’m not sure which hormone would make a woman more inclined to go to those sort of lengths. But when in doubt, blame progesterone. It is often a bit of a minefield for a considerable number of woman.

I don't think it's as simple as women just being less strong than men. If it was the case, then crimes of violence against weaker humans- i.e children, would be committed as frequently by women as men, but this is not the case. And then sexual abuse of children would also be equally common- again, not the case. And watching porn involving children would be equally common- yet again, not the case.

This. All day this. We are, by nature, far more similar than people, especially men, want to admit. And I don't know why, unless of course they are men who dislike women.

It's worse, it's actual women buying into the patriarchy and not my Nigelling all over other women's lived experience.
They ought to be ashamed of themselves but lack the self awareness.

Well, most child abuse is at the hands of women. And the amount of emotional abuse from mothers is staggering. There are fewer instances of women being violent enough towards children that the police are called, partly because if there is a man present he will be more likely to intervene and stop the violence whereas a woman cannot physically stop the man and must contact the police.

Sexual abuse is different. Sexual torture, like rape and child grooming and molestation, are more about power than sexual desire. Rape is a crime of anger, not of sex, rape is not driven by sexual desire, it's driven by hate, contempt and cruelty. As women, we are not physically equipped to force ourselves on someone the way men are.

Men and women abuse differently, but women do abuse. Neither sex has a monopoly on being rotten.

@AlienatedChildGrown Yes, sounds plausible re: hormones. Peri has made me considerably more outspoken than I used to be, possibly it seems more aggressive! I feel I took a lot of c..p as a younger woman that I can't understand why now!
@JuvenileEmu I expect you are right on the whole, but I don't know the statistics for women/mothers who abuse their children - it could be quite common. Also, I think women are socialised to appear more caring and less violent because that is how they have survived on the whole.

Neither sex has a monopoly on being rotten.

Statistically, one does. I'd also dispute that most child abuse is at the hands of women. Can you back that up?

That's a bit rude!

Not just rude but fucking lazy and likely untrue.

Ok, so you're saying that most child abuse is perpetrated by women, but violent abuse is by men. Women are unable to be as violent to a child as a man, because a man present would overpower the woman and prevent the abuse.

Rape is about power not sex (agreed), but women don't rape children because they are not able to force themselves on children.

I would agree that women can abuse, but basically you're also admitting that women, generally, do not commit abuse on anything like the same scale as men. Although you say emotional abuse is more commonly committed by women- do you have any statistics on that, or are you basing it on personal experience? It sounds like you were probably treated badly by your mother. The person I was emotionally abused by was a man, for what it's worth.

CakeInAJar
Yes!

Women talking to each other at pick up. Are they:
A) making small talk with other women who happen to have popped a kid out in the same 12 months and sometimes adult talk is appreciated
B) talking to their friends and maybe making plans for play dates
C) obviously a bitchy clique with a queen bee and are seeking out their next victim to ignore, they're probably deciding which parent they hate so they can make sure their children don't play with target mum's child, and they're plotting about which children to exclude from birthday parties for the next 12 months.

A woman does pick up and is staring into the middle distance. Is she:
A) probably thinking about one of the million things on her mind
B) enjoying a brief moment peace before the kids come out and hasn't spotted someone she knows yet
C) is obviously silently judging everyone's outward appearance, hair, make up and is giving filthy looks.

There's a work night out for your DH. The whole team is going. Is this:
A) A nice team night out and your DH will either enjoy it or grin and get by until it's acceptable to leave.
B) Probably a fun night but you seriously hope it's not a heavy one because some of the team have form for having a few too many in the early hours
C) something DH shouldn't go on because whilst you trust your DH and he's amazing, you don't like the sound of Sarah and you're sure she's going to use the work meal out to lure your husband to his doom and spend the whole evening seducing him. You trust him though, just not her.

Where people automatically jump to C-type answers, there's usually quite a lot of internalised misogyny because instead of the vast number of entirely reasonable alternatives, the person is choosing to assume that a random woman they hardly know, if at all, playing a part in a bitchy competition.

Who is around children alone more? And again, if the police are not called, how can hard data be produced?

Women will not be equal until we can recognize our own flaws. By categorically saying that men are bad and women are good, you're no different that Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson/Kevin Samuels and those types who say men are good and women are bad.

Women are just as capable of evil as men are. Neither sex is "more evil." Men are physically stronger and are more likely to cause injury that requires medical intervention. That does not mean that women are not violent, we're just not as strong. A bite from a Rottweiler and a chihuahua are not equally severe, but they're both dog bites.

Now if you want to argue that society squashes strength from women, that men have used threats of violence and access to money to manipulate and abuse women for, well, always, I'm right there with you. We're smaller and have been held down and back by men until about 40 years ago, and there's a giant push to take all that away from us and put us back in the shadows. All of that is completely true. But I disagree that men are categorically worse than women. They have more power to do more damage, but women who get power are equally likely to abuse it.

Do you think the women who have been treated badly by other women are sitting there seething saying “Well I can’t speak out because of all the victims of male violence! Those fucking victims ruining my chances at justice”?

Women will not be equal until we can recognize our own flaws. By categorically saying that men are bad and women are good, you're no different that Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson/Kevin Samuels and those types who say men are good and women are bad.

This is nonsense. No one is saying women are good. Statistically, men commit more sexual and violent crime and also non-violent crime. Your comment re women being the main child abusers is just your opinion.