Page 10 | AIBU or is mumsnet slowly being infiltrated by women hating men.

NotSuchASmugMarried · 2023-10-02T07:20:06+00:00

Am I imagining things or is it getting worse here. Every single time we post something a poster will immediately pop up and hijack the thread with a pro-men agenda instead of actually contributing to the thread. Please tell me if you agree. I can't possibly be the only one who thinks this.

HoneyBadgerMom · 02/10/2023 19:14

JuvenileEmu · 02/10/2023 19:06

Ok, so you're saying that most child abuse is perpetrated by women, but violent abuse is by men. Women are unable to be as violent to a child as a man, because a man present would overpower the woman and prevent the abuse.

Rape is about power not sex (agreed), but women don't rape children because they are not able to force themselves on children.

I would agree that women can abuse, but basically you're also admitting that women, generally, do not commit abuse on anything like the same scale as men. Although you say emotional abuse is more commonly committed by women- do you have any statistics on that, or are you basing it on personal experience? It sounds like you were probably treated badly by your mother. The person I was emotionally abused by was a man, for what it's worth.

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I'm saying women commit a different kind of abuse than men do.

If the metric is the physical damage of the abuse, then yes, men are stronger and can injure more easily and do so more frequently.

What I'm trying to say (and seemingly not getting across, let me try to be more clear) is that while the type of abuse perpetrated by women is more psychological and less physically violent, that does not therefore mean that women are somehow superior in character (on the whole). Women are capable of the same level of evil as a man. Maybe not the identical type of evil, but the same degree of evil. I think I'm still missing the mark, does that make sense? I'm talking about the capacity for evil, not the manifestation.

I was both physically and psychologically abused by both my parents. My mother wasn't able to hit me as hard as my father, and both of them did a very thorough job of making sure I hated myself. Their evil was different, but one wasn't necessarily worse than the other.

JuvenileEmu · 02/10/2023 19:15

HoneyBadgerMom · 02/10/2023 19:09

Who is around children alone more? And again, if the police are not called, how can hard data be produced?

Women will not be equal until we can recognize our own flaws. By categorically saying that men are bad and women are good, you're no different that Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson/Kevin Samuels and those types who say men are good and women are bad.

Women are just as capable of evil as men are. Neither sex is "more evil." Men are physically stronger and are more likely to cause injury that requires medical intervention. That does not mean that women are not violent, we're just not as strong. A bite from a Rottweiler and a chihuahua are not equally severe, but they're both dog bites.

Now if you want to argue that society squashes strength from women, that men have used threats of violence and access to money to manipulate and abuse women for, well, always, I'm right there with you. We're smaller and have been held down and back by men until about 40 years ago, and there's a giant push to take all that away from us and put us back in the shadows. All of that is completely true. But I disagree that men are categorically worse than women. They have more power to do more damage, but women who get power are equally likely to abuse it.

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I don't agree. And no-one is saying all women are good, all men are bad. Men commit more bad acts than women do. Women may be as capable as evil as men, but women commit evil acts far less frequently. You seem very attached to the idea that both sexes are the same, just one is stronger than the other. I'm not sure why you want to believe this so much, but I'm afraid the evidence does not back you up.

HoneyBadgerMom · 02/10/2023 19:21

JuvenileEmu · 02/10/2023 19:15

I don't agree. And no-one is saying all women are good, all men are bad. Men commit more bad acts than women do. Women may be as capable as evil as men, but women commit evil acts far less frequently. You seem very attached to the idea that both sexes are the same, just one is stronger than the other. I'm not sure why you want to believe this so much, but I'm afraid the evidence does not back you up.

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We can agree to disagree. I think what happens when no one is looking matters. You seem very attached to the idea that women are better on the whole than men are, that women are somehow morally superior. I've been a woman for a while now, and I don't see that as being true. At all. You're focused singularly on physical violence that ends in police interactions as proof that women are "better" than men, which is your right to do, you can categorize bad behavior any way you like. I disagree, I think that while women are less violent than men, they aren't less likely to be cruel than men are.

I don't mean that women and men are the same, I realize that my post does sound that way and that wasn't what I intended to convey. Men and women are definitely very different. But all the evil in the world isn't singularly the fault of either sex, sorry, I just don't buy it.

ketchup07070 · 02/10/2023 19:27

@HoneyBadgerMom I think I agree with you. For me violence is part of a number of systems in which men and women are complicit. From Maxwell's role in Epstein's trafficking, to runners who allegedly sourced young women for Brand, to the celebrity culture that values women as sex objects and men as womanisers, right the way down to a worldwide acceptance of inequality on every level.

HoneyBadgerMom · 02/10/2023 19:31

ketchup07070 · 02/10/2023 19:27

@HoneyBadgerMom I think I agree with you. For me violence is part of a number of systems in which men and women are complicit. From Maxwell's role in Epstein's trafficking, to runners who allegedly sourced young women for Brand, to the celebrity culture that values women as sex objects and men as womanisers, right the way down to a worldwide acceptance of inequality on every level.

Oh, thank you! Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.

LilShaniqua · 02/10/2023 19:33

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ketchup07070 · 02/10/2023 19:34

@HoneyBadgerMom I do also understand what other posters are saying, but I find it too simplistic. As you say, it's fine and even good for us to disagree with others!

itsaquarterafterone · 02/10/2023 19:43

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Who are you talking to?

HoneyBadgerMom · 02/10/2023 19:43

ketchup07070 · 02/10/2023 19:34

@HoneyBadgerMom I do also understand what other posters are saying, but I find it too simplistic. As you say, it's fine and even good for us to disagree with others!

I get what they're saying, too. They're not wrong, men commit more violence, and they have committed far more large-scale atrocities than women (aside from Mary Tudor, I'm struggling to think of a female ruler who committed atrocities, I'm sure I'm missing some). But we've had less power, always, so we can't really definitively say what we would do if we had the same power. I'm inclined to believe it would depend on the individual woman, rather than on the fact that she is a woman. We're people, just like men, which is why we deserve equality under the law and the right to support ourselves and make choices about our lives without permission from men. Of course, all I want is to be seen as equally valuable and an individual in my own right. I don't want to be viewed as "better" than all men, any more than I think any man should be viewed as "better" than all women.

Just because a man is strong enough to commit violence doesn't mean that he will, and just because a woman isn't strong enough to commit violence doesn't mean that she wouldn't if she could. That's all I'm saying.

JuvenileEmu · 02/10/2023 19:48

So basically you are saying that women have the same capacity to commit violence and atrocities as men, but they don't. Fair enough. And, believe me, I do not see women as being generally "good", or intrinsically moral, at all. So, I guess we might as well agree to disagree.

TrailingLoellia · 03/10/2023 09:48

HoneyBadgerMom · 02/10/2023 19:14

I'm saying women commit a different kind of abuse than men do.

If the metric is the physical damage of the abuse, then yes, men are stronger and can injure more easily and do so more frequently.

What I'm trying to say (and seemingly not getting across, let me try to be more clear) is that while the type of abuse perpetrated by women is more psychological and less physically violent, that does not therefore mean that women are somehow superior in character (on the whole). Women are capable of the same level of evil as a man. Maybe not the identical type of evil, but the same degree of evil. I think I'm still missing the mark, does that make sense? I'm talking about the capacity for evil, not the manifestation.

I was both physically and psychologically abused by both my parents. My mother wasn't able to hit me as hard as my father, and both of them did a very thorough job of making sure I hated myself. Their evil was different, but one wasn't necessarily worse than the other.

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I agree and the studies back up that verbal/emotional abuse is just as psychologically damaging as physical/sexual abuse. There was a thread yesterday where a mum had shouted at her 8 month old and posters were literally falling over themselves to say it is ok, 'everyone does it’ (no they don’t) and it’s no big deal. I think many women are in denial as to the impact of nonviolent forms of abuse.

Shouting at children can be as damaging as physical or sexual abuse, study says https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/02/shouting-at-children-can-be-as-damaging-as-physical-or-sexual-abuse-study-says

Shouting at children can be as damaging as physical or sexual abuse, study says

Research finds verbal abuse leaves young people at greater risk of self-harm, drug use and going to prison

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/02/shouting-at-children-can-be-as-damaging-as-physical-or-sexual-abuse-study-says

OhamIreally · 03/10/2023 16:34

And none of it is as damaging and final as death, which is where male violence frequently leads.

To the PP who said about men coming on Mumsnet- I read a post several years ago from a poster who said she comes on here to find out and hear what women think. Thats what interested her. That's why she was here, not to hear what men think.

TrailingLoellia · 03/10/2023 17:34

OhamIreally · 03/10/2023 16:34

And none of it is as damaging and final as death, which is where male violence frequently leads.

To the PP who said about men coming on Mumsnet- I read a post several years ago from a poster who said she comes on here to find out and hear what women think. Thats what interested her. That's why she was here, not to hear what men think.

Broken children growing up to be broken adults is arguably not as bad as death although globally, women are responsible for half of child murders.

CakeInAJar · 03/10/2023 17:36

ketchup07070 · 02/10/2023 19:27

@HoneyBadgerMom I think I agree with you. For me violence is part of a number of systems in which men and women are complicit. From Maxwell's role in Epstein's trafficking, to runners who allegedly sourced young women for Brand, to the celebrity culture that values women as sex objects and men as womanisers, right the way down to a worldwide acceptance of inequality on every level.

FGS you can’t lump in a child sex trafficker with a lowly runner who was checking if a woman fancied a bloke and wanted some consensual sex. How ludicrous

Beises how do you know Brand’s runners were women? Can you name them? What crime did they commit?

CakeInAJar · 03/10/2023 17:37

JuvenileEmu · 02/10/2023 19:48

So basically you are saying that women have the same capacity to commit violence and atrocities as men, but they don't. Fair enough. And, believe me, I do not see women as being generally "good", or intrinsically moral, at all. So, I guess we might as well agree to disagree.

Thing is it’s a moot point. Women possible have the same capacity to harm than men do - but so what! They don’t! I have the capacity to Rob a bank, but I wouldn’t like to be accused of it when I’ve never done anything of the sort

Summonedbybees · 03/10/2023 17:47

@Worddance
I reported a single sentence post the other day. I can provide the link if you wish?
A poster simply wrote 'Men truly are the plague on this earth.'
That is hate speech and breaks talk guidelines. I reported it and MN mod declined to remove it.
I support MN over many things but Hate speech is going really low as Michelle Obama would say.

CakeInAJar · 03/10/2023 17:51

Summonedbybees · 03/10/2023 17:47

@Worddance
I reported a single sentence post the other day. I can provide the link if you wish?
A poster simply wrote 'Men truly are the plague on this earth.'
That is hate speech and breaks talk guidelines. I reported it and MN mod declined to remove it.
I support MN over many things but Hate speech is going really low as Michelle Obama would say.

How is that hate speech?

Men commit the vast majority of crime, they make up most of the world’s warmongers and most politicians who are destroying the planet.

I think it’s a fair summary actually

Summonedbybees · 03/10/2023 17:52

There are so many threads about gender disappointment with regard to baby boys. Reading posts that promote the belief that men are the plague on the earth does not help. I think this kind attitude is so dangerous and should not be allowed.

Summonedbybees · 03/10/2023 17:55

I keep a record of dangerous posts like these. There used to be horrible sexist posts allowed to stand about tricking MILs into thinking they have dementia. I started sending links to Age Concern . MN mods now take down these kind of vile posts.

TrailingLoellia · 03/10/2023 17:57

CakeInAJar · 03/10/2023 17:51

How is that hate speech?

Men commit the vast majority of crime, they make up most of the world’s warmongers and most politicians who are destroying the planet.

I think it’s a fair summary actually

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We are all destroying the planet, women in power are just as likely to start wars and commit atrocities. I think it is hate speech to compare any group on the basis of sex to a killer pathogen because it is dehumanising.

Summonedbybees · 03/10/2023 17:58

So @CakeInAJar
Do you think all baby boys ( baby men) are the plague of the earth and that you via MN should promote a massacre of the innocents type scenario?
I think that deserves national attention.

EarthlyNightshade · 03/10/2023 18:00

TrailingLoellia · 03/10/2023 17:34

Broken children growing up to be broken adults is arguably not as bad as death although globally, women are responsible for half of child murders.

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Women are responsible for about half the murders of their own children.

Just read a stat that parents are responsible for around 56% of child murders - this leave a lot of child murders that men are more likely to be responsible for, considering they are responsible for 98% of worldwide murders.

CakeInAJar · 03/10/2023 18:00

I keep a record of dangerous posts like these.

Lol

There used to be horrible sexist posts allowed to stand about tricking MILs into thinking they have dementia. I started sending links to Age Concern

What do you think Age Concern will do with anonymous posts?!

I have seen posts like but they don’t go hand in hand with an epidemic of DIL to MIL gaslighting and violence in the real world so like all ridiculous and unlikely posts I would never dream of taking them seriously

TrailingLoellia · 03/10/2023 18:03

EarthlyNightshade · 03/10/2023 18:00

Women are responsible for about half the murders of their own children.

Just read a stat that parents are responsible for around 56% of child murders - this leave a lot of child murders that men are more likely to be responsible for, considering they are responsible for 98% of worldwide murders.

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Well yes, we were talking about abusive parents as in DV were we not?

CakeInAJar · 03/10/2023 18:04

Summonedbybees · 03/10/2023 17:58

So @CakeInAJar
Do you think all baby boys ( baby men) are the plague of the earth and that you via MN should promote a massacre of the innocents type scenario?
I think that deserves national attention.

No but the ‘baby men’ turn into adult men and far too many of them pose a genuine threat on so many levels to women and other men - and it terrifies me. I have a son, he’s the most amazingly kind and loving little person, but I’m conscious that we live in a world that turns good sweet boys into dangerous and misogynistic men and TBH it is now a case of me hoping I’ve done a good enough job that he doesn’t go that way. That’s not man hating. Because the patriarchy damages men too, not just women.