AIBU or is mumsnet slowly being infiltrated by women hating men.

[NotSuchASmugMarried]

Am I imagining things or is it getting worse here. Every single time we post something a poster will immediately pop up and hijack the thread with a pro-men agenda instead of actually contributing to the thread.

Please tell me if you agree. I can't possibly be the only one who thinks this.

@CharlotteRumpling I fear for my daughter on a level I don't for my sons, SA/DV etc (yes I know they can happen but teenage girls aren't out taking machetes to boys who don't want to date them and 2 men aren't dying a week at hands of a partner) but I fear gang violence and knife crime with my sons. And sadly my DS has already witnessed a stabbing at only 15.

I don't know if you'll agree here but many years ago, we feared our daughters would be anyone from Sarah Payne to Suzy Lamplugh, now we fear our daughters will be Sarah Everard. We can't trust anyone with our daughters safety.

I fear for society in general, lots of wonderful People of either sex are murdered, raped, beaten etc every day, but my daughter, my precious, tiny little baby daughter, the fear is just so fucking much.

She means women-hating men. That is men who hate women. Yes. It got me for a moment and obviously a few others from the replies.

I'm confused as to whether you mean women-hating men or women who hate men.

How have i misinterpreted the stats? They seem quite clear to me.

“Derailing” is a term used by people who have no counter argument.

I don't think the murder thing is quite the gotcha that @Kemper thinks it is. I certainly worry about my son experiencing male violence. I have lovely, gentle male friends who have been assaulted in the street by aggressive groups of men and it horrifies me.

However, all the women I know have experienced male sexual violence or harassment as an absolute inevitability. Having your daughter leered at in her school uniform while she's still in primary is a sickening gut punch reminder of what she will endure. The casual expectation of choking, spitting, hair pulling and anal as normal sexual behaviour is a terrifying and rapid change fuelled by degrading mainstream pornography in which women are abused, raped and tortured for men's gratification and that feeds through into the treatment of women every day, starting in their teens.

I haven’t see this anymore than I see ‘I know you do 100% of childcare & mental load but poor Dave will go elsewhere if you don’t see to his needs’

I don’t doubt that some fathers go for 50/50 exclusively as

A) A CM elimination strategy
B) An anti asset loss strategy
C) An emotional donkey kick to the gut of the ex strategy

However there is also the reality that visitation hasn’t done the best job of keeping the bonds between father and child(ren) secure and solid.

With 50/50 both parents are more tightly locked into a location because of schools and travel time considerations. So it’s harder for one parent to unilaterally decide to move a considerable distance away. without taking into consideration the negatives they will have to take as part of the package. Few want to do a huge round trip for the school run half of the week for example.

Personal I don’t think 50/50 is optimal for children at any age and stage. It’s too easy for them to end up in a rootless, no real home, kind of life, especially if new partners and step/half siblings come into the picture. Nesting is probably the most child-friendly option for most of the kids, a lot of the time.

But little unites men and women onto the same page of “it’s a hard no from me” like that option.

So that leaves visitation or 50/50.

In cultures where the father is the de facto parent and mothers get variable levels of easily accessed visitation you’d see many women bite your hand off for 50/50. Not by any means a majority as a cost saving or “pay back time you bastard” measure. Just because a few days a week (at best) visitation doesn’t meet their emotional need due to their attachment to their children and they justifiably fear the fraying of the bonds with the small people they love the most.

I suspect many men, having watched the landscape of the 80s - 2010s play out as they grew up, have a strong interest in changing their task responsibilities in order to keep their children closely emotionally bonded to them.

Which may turn out to be no bad thing from the child’s perspective as they grow up, have children of their own, with a model of fatherly involvement that is a few steps above “see occasionally, mostly in McDonalds or the swimming pool, if at all”.

It has to be better than a landscape where the role of fatherhood for too many has become a “for now, but maybe not for long” role. Which causes more than few wounded children’s souls. And it might become less socially acceptable to walk away from your children if stepping up to the plate with the day to day grind of child rearing is seen as not just a perfectly reasonable option, but the expected behaviour of a “good/real” dad.

I did see a post recently (I think on the thread about the poor girl murdered in Croydon) where a poster was prepared to bet her life that none of her dear GC had ever had a violent thought about a woman.
Everyone wants to think well of their sons and grandsons, but I don't think I would bet my life that my sons never had a violent thought. I hope I have brought them up well enough to respect women, but other men, all those NAMALTs people keep talking about, need to do more to call out poor behaviour and make violence against women unacceptable to all people, not just women.

I live in SE London, and I do not want to minimise stabbing and gang-related violence. However, my DS has been able to avoid them, somehow.

My DD on the other hand has not been able to avoid groping, stalking, following on a deserted road, leering, roofies... the list goes on. I don't know any woman who has.

I use the word female to differentiate between them and the non female kind of women

Fortunately, most of us are unlikely to be murdered. But not being the most likely victim of a murderous men is not much for women to celebrate, is it? Particularly when we're still the first choice for the much more likely violence of harassment, sexual assault, rape...
I'm also confused as to how the fact that men murder each other more than they do women makes men any better?

@Kemper - you are the dictionary definition of disingenuous.

If someone called my son a violent woman hater I would be defending him

Because he is not a violent woman hater

Eh? Nobody has called anyone's son a violent woman-hater. Least of all yours. How could they possibly know?

They have drawn attention to the problem of male violence, which affects men as well. Can you not see the difference?

Female as an adjective isn't suspect; it's the posters referring to 'females' collectively or say 'a female in the office' rather than 'a female colleague'. Or talking about a couple and they refer to 'the man' and 'the female' throughout the post. It's subtle but really telling. It's different to how it's used in discussions of gender and trans issues because it's used to dehumanise and diminish.

Agreed. I use the word female way more than I would have done 15 years ago.

I’m not GC, just BiR (believes in reality). But it’s been a struggle for a considerable amount of time to make it clear what you mean with the word woman, since it morphed into meaning “you are one if you think you are one whatever that is”.

I think if someone actually called my son a violent woman-hater, I would defend him too.
But if people were talking generally about male violence and how there is a LOT of it, especially in the context of a recent sexual assault/murder, I wouldn't mention my son.

That's exactly how it is being discussed. Nobody is attacking anyone's precious baby son.Jeez! 🙄

I have a son too. I don't insert him into every conversation, least of all when a 15-year-old girl is lying dead in the street, beheaded by a machete.

It's just bad English/grammar, should have said 'men who hate women' to make more sense.. but not everyone is good with language, or have English as their first language, or had the privilege of a good education.. so lets not pick on people's choice of words, the first post made their intention clear even if the title was a little ambiguous.

YABU

it's perfectly possible not to see "men" as a different species and have an opinion without being a man for a start.

Some of us see people as... people, good or bad, penis or not, not men as an alien species who landed on earth to destroy womankind.

Unfortunately, some posters cannot tolerate anyone expressing a milder or different point of view without screeching NAMALT, YOU-MUST-BE-A-MAN, or even 'handmaiden" to complete the full MN bingo.

It's hard to not screech NAMALT when posters want to insert "Not my Nigel" and " How dare you attack my precious son and his golden penis?" into every general discussion on male violence.

Not sure if you are responding to me on this?
My response was to LakeTiticaca.

I have a 17yo DS, a brother, a male best friend, and a male partner, and i still have the feelings of "fucking men" whenever i see yet another incidence of male violence against women.

It may not be ALL men, but its enough of the fuckers that i don't trust most of them an inch.

I've been here on MN since 2006, and there has always been cycles of these idiots popping up and invading the threads with their bullshit about women needing to behave, calling us misandrists.

There has also, always been a cohort of women on here who persist in calling any of us who don't toe the accepted feminist lines names, or of being secretly men.

It's cyclical, and fucking boring. It'll pass, ignore it.

Sorry @EarthlyNightshade that response was to @LakeTiticaca but also in general to posters who keep bringing up their sons constantly. Not you!