AIBU or is mumsnet slowly being infiltrated by women hating men.

[NotSuchASmugMarried]

Am I imagining things or is it getting worse here. Every single time we post something a poster will immediately pop up and hijack the thread with a pro-men agenda instead of actually contributing to the thread.

Please tell me if you agree. I can't possibly be the only one who thinks this.

@Potiphar

Isn’t it a bit insulting to suggest that these things must be down to “internalised misogyny” rather than someone’s genuine opinion? Some people have different options.

btw I think it’s fine to think the pay gap isn’t a big deal, that a women’s place is in the home, and that a woman going to work risks damaging her children.

I really don't think it's "fine" to think a man should be paid more than a woman purely by virtue of the fact that he has a penis or that a woman's place is automatically always in the home, no. And I find it extremely offensive that people think a woman who is forced to work to support her children is damaging those children by doing so.

To me those beliefs/postures are so self-evidently self destructive to a woman's agency or financial independence and welfare that any woman who believes this either lacks the critical faculties to understand why that's self destructive or has taken on board a lot of rhetoric which has persuaded her these are in her best interests when they are not. They are irrational and demonstrably damaging positions.

The fact that it's a "genuine opinion" doesn't mean it's not a wrong opinion. I'm sure women who have convinced themselves that its better for other women not to work genuinely believe this. But their "genuine opinion" is not rooted in evidence, not rational and not in the broader interest of either themselves or other women.

Some people do indeed have different opinions and they are welcome to them. Some people believe the earth is flat. That doesn't mean those opinions are equally valid, well thought through and rational. If that's insulting, so be it, I'm not overly troubled by insulting people without critical skills.

There's some at the start of this thread talking about male on male violence.

So…you’re right and anyone who thinks differently is wrong?
Does that sum it up succinctly?

@Potiphar

So…you’re right and anyone who thinks differently is wrong?
Does that sum it up succinctly?

Well, if you want to put it like that, yes. Believing your opinion is correct and expressing why you believe that to be the case is pretty much a textbook definition of having a debate.

Why would you bother arguing for something you didn't believe to be correct?

As I've already said, I'm perfectly content for people to believe that these things are in their best interests if it makes them happy but I'm not going to argue that their opinion is as valid as mine. Life is too short for me to give a "all must have prizes" approach to people's views in a debate when it's something I care strongly about and I believe they are wrong.

As a PP has already suggested, look at any of the threads about Russell Brand for examples of the first.
The most recent and fresh in my mind example of the second is the 'is it mostly men?' thread which at one point had posters making false comparisons with racism to discredit women criticising men. Conveniently ignoring that anyone with the most rudimentary undertanding of the role of power means one cannot simply substitute 'people of colour' for 'men'.
Whether they did this because their understanding is genuinely very limited, or deliberately to sabotage the thread, the result was to divert women from the topic in hand to defend themselves from accusations of prejudice and discrimination against men. Once again centring men's feelings, and presenting them as victims akin to POC experiencing racism.

Not by his partner he isn't.

Yes and no. There's the occasional flurry of transactivists coming over from Twitter or TikTok or wherever they post either coming for screenshots or genuinely on a mission to show those pesky women the error of their ways, but they tend to get bored of it rather quickly. There's also a few gender conservatives coming to FWR for the opposite reason but they invariably get their arses handed to them by the resident feminists.

I remember that thread (didn’t take part though) the poster you’re talking about merely used home office statistics. No one could refute them.

No one needed to @Kemper as they were irrelevant to the discussion.
Racism towards POC cannot under any circumstances be compared with 'sexism' towards men. Both may involve prejudice, but given only one is combined with the power to translate that prejudice into something harmful to the class of people in question, they bear no comparison. The poster who argued other wise was either not very bright, or deliberately trying to discredit the women by presenting them as akin to racists. Or maybe both, given they're not mutually exclusive.

I fear for my sons because of male on male violence. Am I not allowed to do that or something? I don’t fear for them because of women - I fear for them because of other MEN! I also have a daughter too, and I fear for her… also because of men. You don’t need let your piss boils because of me. I’m not your enemy.

While fearing for my sons, I am also simultaneously bringing them up to be good men. They’re boys at the moment, and I’m a single mum giving them good examples. They are learning from the best, with their loser father not influencing them.

I have a zero tolerance approach to the men who behave like the lazy, violent (amongst many other things) arseholes you sometimes read about on here. I don’t hate men as a whole, but I can’t stand the bad ones! I’m bringing my sons up to not be those. And yes, I do fear for them being stabbed or punched by another man (or boy!).

As I said. I’m not your enemy.

@funinthesun19 I think the point that @CharlotteRumpling and other have been trying to make is that the risk of violence to men/boys is real but this is nothing to do with women or feminism.

There's a strand of thought which I've seen on here which is that boys are in some way at risk due to "misandry" (most of which is not misandry at all but a misinterpretation of feminism). And that this is equivalent to the harm to young females as a result of misogyny. It's really not.

Young boys and men are certainly at risk of gratuitous stabbings/violence of various kinds and I can absolutely understand why the mother of a son would be concerned about this. But this is as a result of the behaviour of other men and boys, not the behaviour of women and certainly nothing to do with feminism or the "breakdown of the family" or other such nonsense which is sometimes trotted out. There's no equivalence at all between male on male violence and the risk to women of rape and sexual assault as a direct result of males thinking they are entitled to women's bodies.

I think there's always been the NAMALTS and the 'what about the menz'.

But I don’t think it's always the case. I've been accused of being a man on here when I certainly am not and am also a feminist, but sometimes MN veers into misandry and I'll call out sexism when I see it.

i'm sick of men haters and women haters. someone's husbands only got to fart and you will have the covern pop up screaming to leave him immediately.

i don't understand why people with no kids in their 60s post on mumsnet but they do. I think it's totally moved on from what it once was a forum. I remember the old chat rooms and was all young mums

Yes, I kind of regretted posting that.

I don't hate men and struggle with talking to the women who wished they didn't exist (which was said on the other thread).

I do realise that there are some dangerous men out there and it is a huge problem though.

A lot of the posters on MN of that age group (or approaching it) are bereaved parents.
Should they be kicked off?

Or, here's a thought. Perhaps those "young mums" in the "chat rooms" by definition are no longer "young mums" or have grown out of nappy and nap talk.

Thank Christ.

And yes, @jolaylasofia , sadly, MN has moved on. Not for the better though.

Used to be full of intelligent and very witty posters.

Now it's all men telling women to stfu and women policing other women's presence and invalidating their opinions.

I think MN has always had a few men who like to come on here to tell all the women off. There was one during the lockdowns who just wouldn’t go away - in the end MN started deleting his posts.

The sex topic has always been crawling with men - to the point where a few threads are almost entirely men.

Young boys and men are certainly at risk of gratuitous stabbings/violence of various kinds and I can absolutely understand why the mother of a son would be concerned about this. But this is as a result of the behaviour of other men and boys, not the behaviour of women

I know and I did say all of this in my post. I think I wrote the word men is capital letters too.

I'm a man, and I quite like the community - I believe there's a place for everyone on MN as long as they're respectful and interact in a way which doesn't cause friction or other issues.

I'm by no means a woman hater (?) - I love my wife, we have a good life together and I love my DC.

I do have issues with the rather vocal few who think all men just think with their penis (imagine if someone talked about women that way) and I will defend men as a whole when we're grouped together in a bad way.
We're NOT all the same; most of us are genuinely good people.

I won't 'respectfully keep quiet' while 'taking in wisdom' as someone has said either in the thread, because that's not what a forum is for - I have plenty of wisdom of my own thank you.
The sooner people realise that men and women do have different strengths and should work together in playing to those rather than slagging each other off, the better.

Yeah, it's really not - that's a very jaded and incorrect view.

It reached a new low recently when a bloke posted a photo of his dick. Luckily it happened in the early hours of the morning & it was immediately reported to MNHQ, & I assume it was deleted by them.

He was one of those men who appear on threads on MN & X/twitter & are completely out of place. Their mindset, their writing style, their (zero) knowledge of the topic under discussion, all mark them out as different. Their contributions are inevitably lame or offensive. This one suddenly appeared on a thread which mentioned the infamous penis beaker, & he seemed to get over-excited at being able to type the word penis & talk about himself, until finally he posted the dick pic.

It took me a while to work out how these men were finding obscure threads when they weren't regulars, but it occurred to me that there must be legions of dull men who sit there at night searching on words like 'penis' & 'vagina'. All the threads they appear on are discussions in which those words are quite properly used, & that's probably not what they were hoping for. Dick pic man had no idea what MN was, so I assume he'd landed on the thread via some external search engine.

Because it's been made clear by those who run the site that we're welcome, and as I've said above men and women have different strengths.
Sometimes it's genuinely useful to get the 'male perspective' on some matters, as I like to get the 'female perspective' on others.

You have made my points for me @Thepeopleversuswork and @5128gap. Agree with most of what you say.

I have no problem with men being on this site at all, but there is really no need to keep telling us that most men are " genuinely good people". We know that.

But I have no way of telling which Met officer is a genuinely good one. So if I am approached by one at 2 am in SE London, I might just be wary. As the police themselves have told us to be! Why any man or any woman should be insulted by this, I don't know.

We get the male perspective on everything, everywhere, all the time.