AIBU to think the disabled are the next target?

[Locutus2000]

The Guardian

Though Jeremy Hunt said the government was “not in a position” to contemplate a decrease in tax immediately, he said the welfare budget could be hit further down the line to foot the bill.

He told the Times that 100,000 people a year were “moving off work into benefits without any obligation to look for work” – a sign he said showed the system was not working.

The welfare system had to be a “mix of carrot and stick”, with more assistance required to help people find work, given there was “no shortage of jobs”, he added."

Funny how 'carrot and stick' always equates to 'more stick'.

with more assistance required to help people find work

This would be good for people like my SIL. He can work but has some LD and finds it hard to go outside his comfort zone and struggles with application forms.

My BIL hasn't worked for over 10 years. He isn't disabled and has no cognitive impairment. He is the type of person these policies are aimed at. He is simply workshy and doesn't see the point in working when he has enough in benefits to live on.

Will they sort out the 7 odd million waiting for medical treatment first?

YABU. The current rhetoric seems to be about convincing the public that pensioners don’t deserve what they receive despite many of them paying into the system for decades. I think they are being negatively targeted much more than disabled people right now.

Surely it depends on the disability?!

Rather than a blanket policy of can't work, it should be looked at case by case...

I agree. The whole thing's a ticking time bomb.

There was a thread the other week discussing what would happen to all the 40/50 something renters when they retire and to those who (often in the same position) haven't sufficiently paid into pensions because rents are so high.

The responses were all, HB will cover rents and Pension Credits.

But, if the welfare budget is hit and the pension budget/pensioner costs are higher, how exactly is that going to work?

People with disabilities are already being targeted through the PIP debacle.

Is he on disability benefits?

There needs to be proper support to help people stay in, or enter, the workplace. My BIL was desperate to stay in work but between a combination of delayed diagnosis and access to support in general and his workplace not supporting until things got to crisis point he got to the point where he can’t. He would love to be able to work but without the right support and flexibility in place it’s not an option.

I don’t want to see benefits removed from people who need them, but I am concerned about the growing welfare bill relative to the amount of tax payers. It just isn’t sustainable.

There are a growing number of people with neurodiversity, which is a positive development in terms of diagnosis. Many if not most work of course, but some are unable to, and so rightly need access to benefits. However, based on my own experience I think there are some who struggle to hold down a job but would thrive if they found the right role. I speak as someone who has ADHD and is constantly novelty seeking, with the attention span of a gnat. When I was younger I bounced between jobs - bar work was great, really stimulating for me, but telesales was a nightmare, just so incredibly boring. I do think it would massively help if there was more advice for people with neurodiversity about what kind of occupations would suit them.

When the Tories got in, 13 years or so ago, they reduced funding to councils. My council was running a very successful back to work and CV workshop for long term benefit claimants. The council then cut that resource, so dozens of people were left without support to get back into work. They cut all kinds of other support too so people were really left without anything. People need help when they have been on benefits for a long time, whether disabled, ill, have been parenting or just unable to find a job. They are deskilled and out of touch with workplace requirements, they may need IT training and so on. You reap what you sow as a political party.

If there was genuine help to get work and support in work I don't have an issue but there are people especially those with learning disabilities who really cannot function sufficiently in the workplace to can a "normal" job, I have 2 lovely volunteers but I have to remind to finish washing up cups, check they are done to hygiene standards, hover behind taking orders as they forget what they need to ask (eg allergens) so they are not saving me time, they cost me time (I have them because they want to be there and it's good for them to do something productive). Supported work places have been closed unfortunately so where can give them paid work?

Yeah, that's meant to target the Disabled and Carers - the most disabled as well, as it's specifically directed at those who have become unable to work and have been deemed to not be able to undergo any job seeking/preparing for work.

They've got their eyes on the next General Election (has to be by January 2025). This means shitloads of money for pensioners, as they are more likely to vote, a rhetoric of workshy, useless eaters over the next year and then if they actually return to power afterwards, not only will the disabled, sick and carers get fucked over, that's when the pensioners will be hit/there will be another increase in the State Retirement Age.

If I were a Tory bastard, I'd also be looking at the other 'perks' that somebody with no requirement from work gets - removal of free prescriptions, cold weather payments, that kind of thing - and continue to frame the discourse in terms of them getting 'something for nothing'. I might also start suggesting that somebody who does not undergo work related activities should have less money than somebody who does 'as they're not doing anything to help themselves'. My nuclear option would be building upon the two child cap by not paying benefits at all in respect of any child conceived after eligibility begins, so perhaps after 1 year.

There's also the financial advantages that friends who own or have shares in the training companies will bring to the party in terms of kickbacks having these claimants sent to them to undergo assorted courses (how to fill in a CV is a lot cheaper to run than providing actual skills and training or removing barriers to work) will make them millions. And if I had interest from big tech companies like hunt already dallies around with, AI health assessments and benefits processing to bring an absence of human compassion judgement, a reduction in human employment costs in assessment or payment and a very happy tech sector with billion dollar contracts. All under the guise of efficiency, best use of taxpayers' money, investment in technology and not at all about lining my pocket, retaining power and allowing overseas companies to control vast swathes of the population.

A lot if disabled people can work but need support to identify the right sort of jobs and training. I see plenty of people in my job who who can't do certain work because if particular disabilities but still function perfectly in other ways. Some people have a mindset where they can't see beyond what they cannot do and potentially pack up work very young.

Disabled people can still work.

I think something will have to change. There has been a massive increase since covid of people applying for working age disability benefits. alongside of course huge numbers of ageing elderly who are living longer and with ageing brings frailty. Whilst claiming PIP does not stop people from working, claiming it alongside the LCWRA element of UC or ESA often gives people enough income to not have to think about whether they could in fact mange some kind of work so they just stay on these benefits long term. As part of my job we help a lot of people in their fifties and early 60's to claim these sickness related benefits and at that age they are basically just counting down to state retirement age as they know that it will be doubly hard to find employment which recognizes their limitations and accepts older workers. Once a person on UC has been recognised as having limited capabilty for work, their partner has a good chunk of their earnings disregarded so works out enough for people to live off comfortably especially if mortgage paid off and all the extra elements you get on UC when you are deemed unfit to work.

The disabled have been a target from the moment George Osborne announced his first budget. It has been the case for years that disabled people are routinely denied benefits they are entitled to and have to go through a lengthy and bureaucratic appeals process to get them which many either haven't the strength of understanding to do so or, sadly, pass away before the situation is rectified.

All the Conservatives have to sort this mess out is to continue to tighten the screws on lower earners and the most vulnerable in society. We are paying ever greater percentages of our income in tax for less and less in terms of welfare and public services while billions are syphoned into the private sector through subsidy and cushy mates' contracts.

They are correct to have identified that welfare is unaffordable and growing.

Wiser heads would look at what to invest in, to halt the growth of welfare and to increase the tax take fairly to pay for it.

None of the political parties are saying this out loud. Politicians want their legacy and will keep kicking the welfare can down the road for someone else to deal with.

Cutting spending is madness though. The demand won't fall unless you find ways to reduce it, like helping people with disabilities into meaningful, well paid work they can actually do.

I suspect soon enough it will be decided that carers on carers allowance will be assessed for their ability to work alongside their caring responsibilities. Or it shifts to high rate care/high Pip only.

Lots do anyway and the fact that there is no earnings threshold for carers element on Universal credit means that more are actually incentivized to. I appreciate a lot cannot work at all when caring for the most severely disabled.

It is affordable if we actually bite the bullet and harmonise capital gains tax with income taxation. Whilst we allow people to earn almost double in capital gains than through employment before they pay the same amount of tax we will always seem short of money for such a rich country.

We also need targeted infrastructure investment that will encourage growth and increase taxation revenues in that way.

In short we need a "New Deal" that rebalances our taxation system and encourages investment in infrastructure.

I work in welfare rights and honestly some of the amounts I see some people getting ( mainly pensioners) on top of all rent and council tax paid is astounding. not going to say any more as I know I'll get slated but I honestly think a lot of people don't realise .

I know a lovely young person who has LD and has worked in a college kitchen ( with support ) for many years and absolutely loves it. If people can be helped to get into suitable work and avoid a lifetime on benefits then there absolutely needs to be more help.

It's all relative though isn't it? I have a sen children thanks to them messing up sen support EHCP special schools etc I've had to come out of work and care for him I was working full time until then taxpayer and everything but because THEY messed things up I've been out for nearly four years I've been a paid carer for four years if they put him in an appropriate special school and diagnosed him 7 years ago (when I first applied for umbrella) I would still be working instead im writing to my bloody MP to find out how a child can be judged in desperate need of a special school one minute and not the next simply because there were none available HE hasn't changed he still has significant needs they just don't have the room so instead of dealing with that they chose to not bother his education has been left up in the air for TWO years they have broken many statutory timeliness its ridiculous

I should be working

@Eleganz I agree we need to tax wealth as well as income, but respectfully, I would prefer to see additional tax revenue spent in other ways, not on maintaining or expanding the welfare state.

No argument from me there Babyroobs