Page 6 | AIBU to think the disabled are the next target?

Locutus2000 · 2023-09-30T12:14:39+00:00

[[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/30/uk-welfare-budget-could-be-cut-to-pave-way-for-tax-cuts-says-jeremy-hunt The Guardian]] ^Though ^[[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/jeremy-hunt ^Jeremy Hunt^]]^ said the government was “not in a position” to contemplate a decrease in tax immediately, he said the welfare budget could be hit further down the line to foot the bill.^ ^He ^[[https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jeremy-hunt-benefits-welfare-reform-public-services-costs-rising-taxes-h3jdr2njq ^told the Times^]]^ that 100,000 people a year were “moving off work into benefits without any obligation to look for work” – a sign he said showed the system was not working.^ ^The welfare system had to be a “mix of carrot and stick”, with more assistance required to help people find work, given there was “no shortage of jobs”, he added."^ Funny how 'carrot and stick' always equates to 'more stick'.

FloweryName · 30/09/2023 17:07

Everyone's excited by the 15 hours free childcare for children aged 9 months - 4 years;I don't know how many people have worked out that the rule that they introduced that single parents have to find at least part time work from when their youngest child turns 3 will probably become from when their youngest child turns 9 months.

There would be nothing wrong with expecting single parents to work when their child gets to 9 months old. It would be in line with maternity leave that working mothers get. Even if it initially cost the state more in terms of childcare along with top up benefits, the long term financial gain for that family would be worth it.

SueVineer · 30/09/2023 17:07

Sirzy · 30/09/2023 17:05

So you do want slave Labour then.

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Community work from those on benefits isn’t slavery.

PerkingFaintly · 30/09/2023 17:08

Oh, and the DWP themselves are repeat offenders for illegally sacking their disabled staff.

DWP acted 'perversely' in sacking of disabled woman, judge findsThis article is more than 4 years old
Department discriminated against Isabella Valentine, employment tribunal rules
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/21/dwp-department-work-pensions-acted-perversely-sacking-disabled-woman

DWP acted 'perversely' in sacking of disabled woman, judge finds

Department discriminated against Isabella Valentine, employment tribunal rules

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/21/dwp-department-work-pensions-acted-perversely-sacking-disabled-woman

DoItAgainPlz · 30/09/2023 17:09

agent765 · 30/09/2023 15:41

Not all of them.

You clearly have contempt for disabled people - and that comes from someone who personally knows several people who play the system.

It is a slippery slope to assume that. One day you may become ill or have an accident that disables you so you can no longer work. Karma's a bitch.

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Wow.

No where did I say all disabled people can work.

No where did I give any suggestion that I have contempt for the disabled.

My comment stands. The disabled are often written off entirely when they needn't be.

Sirzy · 30/09/2023 17:09

SueVineer · 30/09/2023 17:07

Community work from those on benefits isn’t slavery.

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It is if they are being forced into it purely as some sort of payback for daring to need benefits.

SueVineer · 30/09/2023 17:10

Ponoka7 · 30/09/2023 17:00

So what does your plan look like and we're do you get the stats from to say that most can do what you suggest?

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It wasn’t my plan, I just agreed with someone who said that the principle of contributing to society is important. I still agree- it’s important for society and also generally beneficial to the people doing the volunteering.

Ponoka7 · 30/09/2023 17:10

Secondwindplease · 30/09/2023 17:05

I actually think it’s a reasonable expectation for single parents to return to work 15 hours a week when their child is 9 months, if the childcare is subsidised. It’s less hours than many other working parents do.

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Those 15 hours can't be flexible. Most jobs want flexibility. If we made men pay towards child care or get the message across that if they can't pay, they do childcare on their days off. You need to be working 16 hours to still get topped up. You can end up worse off only working 16 hours, though. Personally I've always thought that when we have single, childless non disabled people not working, we shouldn't be forcing LPs of babies into work.

SueVineer · 30/09/2023 17:12

Sirzy · 30/09/2023 17:09

It is if they are being forced into it purely as some sort of payback for daring to need benefits.

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No, it still isn’t. And suitably voluntary community work would be beneficial for all.

pointythings · 30/09/2023 17:13

SueVineer · 30/09/2023 17:12

No, it still isn’t. And suitably voluntary community work would be beneficial for all.

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So you're now rowing back and saying it would need to be voluntary...

SueVineer · 30/09/2023 17:13

pointythings · 30/09/2023 17:13

So you're now rowing back and saying it would need to be voluntary...

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See above

Universalsnail · 30/09/2023 17:13

Longcovider · 30/09/2023 16:18

My long covid nurse thinks I'm not entitled, won't write a supporting letter and in her last medical notes when I said I had walked to the post box said that I was managing regular exercise.

I did do an online checker and I think only got two points for mobility.

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I don't have the criteria in front of me but i am fairly sure based on my own assessment that not being able to walk 100 metres consistently and reliably should get you 10 points which would get you standard rate mobility if that is all your score on but tbh I think if you really considered how ill you are and how often you can't do things because of your fatigue consistently and reliably (which is how PIP is scored not on not being able to do something at all) you'll pick up a few other points here and there too.

Your long Covid nurse is completely wrong about the requirements for PIP.

Just letting you know incase you are struggling

easylikeasundaymorn · 30/09/2023 17:13

Universalsnail · 30/09/2023 15:53

I have a chronic illness. I would love to work but what job would possibly accept me having to call in sick about 50 percent of the time as I never know which days will be a capable day and which won't? Also why should a business or work colleagues have to put up with me having 50% of the time off as my workload would fall to them. I considered self employment but what self employment could I get away with not being able to work half the time? Every body I know with their own business has to work double hard to get it off the ground?

People don't think the practicalities through of forcing sick people into the workplace.

there are quite a few jobs where you can manage your own workload so this wouldn't be an issue. My job has complete flexi time, so we can work whenever we feel like, as long as it gets done. We also have quite a few 'bank' staff - they get allocated random jobs to help the full time staff with their workload, e.g write a report for this case, do the summaries for that one -if they have say 2 weeks to do this, it's entirely up to them when they do it.

Some are on set hourly contracts e.g.7-15 a week, others literally only work what they can. So it's entirely up to them WHEN the work gets done. If you were ill mon-weds you could pick it up saturday afternoon. If you struggled doing full days you could literally just work 2 hours a day, or an hour in the morning and one in the evening.

I appreciate it might be a struggle doing 40 hours ad hoc, but surely most people who are reasonably well at least half the week could fit in say 20 hours of work over the 168 that are in a week if they weren't constrained

It's completely wfh and computer based too, so no more physically taxing than watching tv or typing on mn.

Zebedee55 · 30/09/2023 17:13

SueVineer · 30/09/2023 15:56

Not sure where you get that from- state pensions cost over £120billion a year and at least 20% go to millionaires. Despite that pensioners are getting an increase way above any other benefit claimants. It’s the present generation of workers who are paying for this too.

despite this, and the fact that the triple lock increases alone cost £11 billion last year, no political party has even suggested moderating the increase in pensions never mind means testing. Of course this is partly paid for by continuing to increase the pension age for workers who are paying for these pensions.

The current generation of pensioners as a whole tend to vote and also tend to vote Tory. Hence why they are sitting pretty

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The working population always paid for the generation above with pensions. That's how it works. You seem to not understand either the system or disability.🙄

FloweryName · 30/09/2023 17:15

No benefits have the triple lock except state pensions.

I never said they did.

I said that other benefits went up in line with inflation, unlike wages, which is true.

Universalsnail · 30/09/2023 17:16

easylikeasundaymorn · 30/09/2023 17:13

there are quite a few jobs where you can manage your own workload so this wouldn't be an issue. My job has complete flexi time, so we can work whenever we feel like, as long as it gets done. We also have quite a few 'bank' staff - they get allocated random jobs to help the full time staff with their workload, e.g write a report for this case, do the summaries for that one -if they have say 2 weeks to do this, it's entirely up to them when they do it.

Some are on set hourly contracts e.g.7-15 a week, others literally only work what they can. So it's entirely up to them WHEN the work gets done. If you were ill mon-weds you could pick it up saturday afternoon. If you struggled doing full days you could literally just work 2 hours a day, or an hour in the morning and one in the evening.

I appreciate it might be a struggle doing 40 hours ad hoc, but surely most people who are reasonably well at least half the week could fit in say 20 hours of work over the 168 that are in a week if they weren't constrained

It's completely wfh and computer based too, so no more physically taxing than watching tv or typing on mn.

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What is it you do for a job? :) I asked universal credit for advice about this and noone could suggest anything helpful to me

SueVineer · 30/09/2023 17:17

Zebedee55 · 30/09/2023 17:13

The working population always paid for the generation above with pensions. That's how it works. You seem to not understand either the system or disability.🙄

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we haven’t had pensions all that long but basically they used to be a lot cheaper because they were less and life expectancy was lower. The boomers essentially hit a sweet spot as they got higher pensions and have longer life expectancy and hence are causing the system to be unaffordable.

sorry but it’s not me who doesn’t understand pensions.

PerkingFaintly · 30/09/2023 17:17

hattie43 · 30/09/2023 16:33

Everyone should contribute something in return for benefits if they are able. . I'd advocate some voluntary work for those that may not be able to hold down a job due to LD , ND whatever but they could do a few hours in the community . Maybe cleaning off graffiti , gardening , helping disabled / pensioners with painting , collecting shopping , anything really .

Wha...?

Well that says a lot about your prejudices and stereotyping regarding who is capable, and indeed who somehow becomes automatically deserving.

I'm a middle-aged disabled person who is helped by pensioners with my painting, shopping, etc. My elderly neighbour loves getting going with a paintbrush...

itsgettingweird · 30/09/2023 17:17

Theunamedcat · 30/09/2023 14:51

It's all relative though isn't it? I have a sen children thanks to them messing up sen support EHCP special schools etc I've had to come out of work and care for him I was working full time until then taxpayer and everything but because THEY messed things up I've been out for nearly four years I've been a paid carer for four years if they put him in an appropriate special school and diagnosed him 7 years ago (when I first applied for umbrella) I would still be working instead im writing to my bloody MP to find out how a child can be judged in desperate need of a special school one minute and not the next simply because there were none available HE hasn't changed he still has significant needs they just don't have the room so instead of dealing with that they chose to not bother his education has been left up in the air for TWO years they have broken many statutory timeliness its ridiculous

I should be working

People need to read posts like this which point out the realities until they sink in.

SueVineer · 30/09/2023 17:18

FloweryName · 30/09/2023 17:15

No benefits have the triple lock except state pensions.

I never said they did.

I said that other benefits went up in line with inflation, unlike wages, which is true.

This year they did yes, but not in previous years. Unlike state pensions which have the triple lock.

Ponoka7 · 30/09/2023 17:18

easylikeasundaymorn · 30/09/2023 17:13

there are quite a few jobs where you can manage your own workload so this wouldn't be an issue. My job has complete flexi time, so we can work whenever we feel like, as long as it gets done. We also have quite a few 'bank' staff - they get allocated random jobs to help the full time staff with their workload, e.g write a report for this case, do the summaries for that one -if they have say 2 weeks to do this, it's entirely up to them when they do it.

Some are on set hourly contracts e.g.7-15 a week, others literally only work what they can. So it's entirely up to them WHEN the work gets done. If you were ill mon-weds you could pick it up saturday afternoon. If you struggled doing full days you could literally just work 2 hours a day, or an hour in the morning and one in the evening.

I appreciate it might be a struggle doing 40 hours ad hoc, but surely most people who are reasonably well at least half the week could fit in say 20 hours of work over the 168 that are in a week if they weren't constrained

It's completely wfh and computer based too, so no more physically taxing than watching tv or typing on mn.

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How many jobs are available at present over 25 hours, what skills/qualifications/experience do you need and do you need upto date references?

Oliotya · 30/09/2023 17:18

Zebedee55 · 30/09/2023 17:13

The working population always paid for the generation above with pensions. That's how it works. You seem to not understand either the system or disability.🙄

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That may be true for the few generations that have already received pensions, but they weren't dealing with a dependency ratio anything like what we have now. What has been done before is entirely unaffordable now.

Insommmmnia · 30/09/2023 17:19

SueVineer · 30/09/2023 17:00

Again- no one said anything about forced labour at less than minimum wage.

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"Everyone having to contribute something in return for benefits" literally means forcing disabled people to work for less than minimum wage

Secondwindplease · 30/09/2023 17:25

Ponoka7 · 30/09/2023 17:10

Those 15 hours can't be flexible. Most jobs want flexibility. If we made men pay towards child care or get the message across that if they can't pay, they do childcare on their days off. You need to be working 16 hours to still get topped up. You can end up worse off only working 16 hours, though. Personally I've always thought that when we have single, childless non disabled people not working, we shouldn't be forcing LPs of babies into work.

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Trust me I give single, childless non-working people very short shrift and I’d quite happily see a name and shame column in the local paper for feckless fathers who don’t pay child support. None of that prevents lone parents from working for a very minimal 15 hours a week when their child is 9 months. To conflate these issues is just whataboutry and deflection.

I am very willing to provide ample financial support to lone parents because I strongly believe that no child should live in poverty, and we should all be judged by how we treat the most vulnerable. But the quid pro quo is surely that when lone parents can contribute to their households though paid employment, they do so without hesitation.

Shadypaws23 · 30/09/2023 17:25

It's trying to manage everything too
I have hidden illnesses and don't get PIP as I'm not unwell though, but I'm unwell enough that FT work wipes me out, but can't afford to drop from 40hrs as I live alone

I have to manage
Dermatology at one hospital - injections every 4 weeks, appointment every 6 months
Haematology at another hospital - injections every week, appointment every 3 months plus horrific side effects from injections
Blood tests every 3 months for haematology when there is no blood clinics outside of 8 - 3
Routine doctors appointments plus urgent ones if I get an injection
Then just the daily stuff off being severely immunocompromised and fatigued

My work are good luckily. Haematology get shirty because my bloods aren't always up to date but I'm out of annual leave and there's no clinics outside my workout hours

Zebedee55 · 30/09/2023 17:26

Oliotya · 30/09/2023 17:18

That may be true for the few generations that have already received pensions, but they weren't dealing with a dependency ratio anything like what we have now. What has been done before is entirely unaffordable now.

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Sorry...I worked and "paid for" the pensions for my parents, and grandparents. That's the system.

We, generally, also had houses and kids to support. And that was the system.

Today's working generation didn't invent the way it works.🙄