AIBU to think the disabled are the next target?

[Locutus2000]

The Guardian

Though Jeremy Hunt said the government was “not in a position” to contemplate a decrease in tax immediately, he said the welfare budget could be hit further down the line to foot the bill.

He told the Times that 100,000 people a year were “moving off work into benefits without any obligation to look for work” – a sign he said showed the system was not working.

The welfare system had to be a “mix of carrot and stick”, with more assistance required to help people find work, given there was “no shortage of jobs”, he added."

Funny how 'carrot and stick' always equates to 'more stick'.

IF anyone will give it to them... companies won't look at anyone they think might dent their profits.
And don't come at me with "it's illegal to discriminate". It's both rife and bloody hard to prove.

Everyone should contribute something in return for benefits if they are able. . I'd advocate some voluntary work for those that may not be able to hold down a job due to LD , ND whatever but they could do a few hours in the community . Maybe cleaning off graffiti , gardening , helping disabled / pensioners with painting , collecting shopping , anything really .

It will get you piled on mn instead of an honest conversation. I have disabled children and see this a lot. Equally, there are parents who have been let down by the health system and education system. We have options due to household income. Problem is - all those facilities need funding and as a country we can’t cover outgoings as is.

Emotion ride high on these threads and people get defensive - I get it. People will as they feel they are being attacked. Welfare state and an ageing demographic is a huge time bomb. However looking at it from a purely fiscal point of view something needs to change. There is a pretty strong consensus in economic circles that we are at the tipping point PAYE wise (higher end) so we need to look to other solutions.

Housing benefit only applies to renters, anyone living alone gets a 25% council tax reduction regardless of age, attendance allowance is for the very frail. Yes, winter fuel payments - a whole £200 for the entire winter. Of course the whole population recently got help with fuel bills.

Yes I agree 1 I think we have to get back to a situation where we realize we can’t just take. Of course some may be genuinely unable but most won’t be.

But you don't claim PIP for specific uses? Do you understand PIP?

PIP is a points based system, if you meet the criteria to get the points you are awarded PIP. After that, it is up to the individual what to spend it on.

PIP is not easy to get, why do you think so many people go to appeal tribunals?

And the people already being paid for those jobs?

I don't agree at all. Using disabled and vulnerable people as a free source of labour is very iffy and open to all sorts of abuse.

Maybe you'd like young single mothers to work in laundries?

Hiding this thread as it is going to a very bad place.

Agreed

Fair pay for a days works - or a few hours if that's all they can do

There is something slightly off in society where disabled people who may have lower productivity than others find suitable jobs hard to come by , yet people can think of work they could do when the conversation is about benefits

We used to have this sort of thing. It was called 'slavery'.

If the work needs doing, pay someone a proper wage for it.

Actually I am coming off this thread because some of the comments are very close to the idea that only people who work are worth anything , and close to an ideology that is despicable.

It is entirely untrue that that’s the maximum amount pensioners get from the state. It’s the minimum. This is the amount of pension credit- the equivalent amount for uc for working age people is about £67 for people under 25 and about £10 more for working age people under pension age. so pensioners on pension credit get over double working age people on benefits.

Then of course there’s housing benefit (no deductions for under occupation unlike working age people), free prescriptions, winter fuel allowance, etc. all of which pensioners on pension credit get automatically.

Not to forget of course that the state pension is one of the few universal benefits and certainly the highest. The cost of state pensions alone is greater than the whole education budget and at least 20% goes to millionaires.

You appear to have a rose tinted view of both what it is to live as a disabled person, what it would take to run such a scheme and how painter, cleaners and gardeners would feel when they are struggling to make ends meet when a bunch of exhausted, in pain, distressed individuals are forced to take on their work for free.

We all should be contributing to society if we can. That’s not slavery and it’s really offensive to think that slavery is the same as community work.

It’s not so much that only those who work are worth anything but that the numbers of people not paying tax for whatever reason is unsustainably high.
Clearly in the case of a lot of disabled people and those that care for them work is not going to be an option whatever is done and the state needs to be able to provide for such people. At the same time people actively choosing to be a SaHP for example are financially benefiting their family at the expense of the state, both through lost tax revenue but more importantly through failing to contribute towards their pensions, and such choices should be subject to taxation to cover the additional costs to the state.

I am going to let my husband know that he needs to start cleaning graffiti. A bit limited when only possible from a sitting position. Same with painting. I guess he could theoretically do someone's shopping, as long as the shopping list only includes goods from the lower shelves. And he'd need someone to help him in and out of the car and to carry the shopping etc.

@hattie43 absolutely no. Community service cleaning graffiti and litter picking used to be for criminals. It is not a crime to be disabled or unemployed. If there is work to be done then pay people a fair wage to do it! Otherwise street sweepers, cleaners and other low paid workers will be laid off and then forced to go back to their job in exchange for a pathetic amount of universal credit. Because UC really is that. Look at all the "I only earn 80k however will I afford to live" threads and then think that that is around 13 years of bills and food money to a young single UC claimant.

Its not voluntary work if they have to do it in exchange for benefits.

Nope. This is still nowhere near enough to compensate for the UKs deteriorating demographics and infrastructure.

There is no scenario where you fix this without less tax revenue being diverted to pensioners because you ignore the big 3:

Pensions
Healthcare
Social Care

You cannot raise £100bn+ in tax per year to fund those things as they stand.

Mathematically impossible.

Its the end of the line for the outsized perks that UK pensioners have been receiving due to the crumbling infrastructure, and the older and sicker population.

Even mass immigration on a Canada-like scale will not save you now. Too much damage has been done.

Why do you plan to do that? Because someone suggested other disabled people could do community work if they are able?

so on that basis you’ve decided to tell your husband to clean graffiti? Is that right?

No, I stand by what I said. Work that needs doing should be properly paid. And that should include sick leave, annual leave, pensions. If you don't think so, I invite you to ask yourself, as a disabled person, why you think disabled people should not have these things.

But you are not talking about voluntary work, are you? You are talking about forcing disabled people to do menial tasks to earn their benefits. That is fucking offensive.

And I really am coming off this thread now because it is genuinely making me feel sick.

Very few of them just get this. there are huge numbers getting Attendance Allowance ( one of the easiest disability beenfits to get ) and this can passport people to pension credit which passports them to full housing beenfit, council tax etc. i think unless you actually see the amounts first hand that people get it's very easy to think it's just £203 a week. The reality is far from this.

It's making people work to be able to eat, regardless of how much pain, tiredness, distress, humiliation etc that causes, there always have been different forms of slavery. In practice this would cost more than the benefits being given. I can remember the deaths when the Youth Opportunity schemes were going because no-one had training or the right equipment.
What is needed are IT skills courses, but the Inbetween ones that employers are asking for. So Microsoft 350 etc.