AIBU to think the disabled are the next target?

[Locutus2000]

The Guardian

Though Jeremy Hunt said the government was “not in a position” to contemplate a decrease in tax immediately, he said the welfare budget could be hit further down the line to foot the bill.

He told the Times that 100,000 people a year were “moving off work into benefits without any obligation to look for work” – a sign he said showed the system was not working.

The welfare system had to be a “mix of carrot and stick”, with more assistance required to help people find work, given there was “no shortage of jobs”, he added."

Funny how 'carrot and stick' always equates to 'more stick'.

Some of them can. Many probably can if the right jobs can be identified and the support supplied. Some can't.

Em what do you mean the next target?
People with disabilities and hidden illnesses have already been treated disgracefully by society for YEARS...

What’s wrong with that though? Pensioners should be provided with enough money to live on comfortably. No one wants to see their granny or grandad living in poverty, only just able to sustain themselves. These are people who will never be able to improve their income, unlike some carers or disabled people. And they have paid into the system that is now providing for them so it’s not like they have contributed nothing.

It isn't wrong to want disabled people to work. The majority would love to work. Thing is, if we want to support people into work - I mean really support them - that will take investment. Some people will only ever be able to work part time - so employers will need incentives to offer job share. Some people will not be able to work unless it's from home - employers will need incentives to recognise and support that. Some people will always need a high level of supervision and teaching - that costs. Just pushing people into work by cutting their financial support will not work. And it's sadly the only thing the Tories will ever offer.

'The disabled' are always talked about as one homogenous lump.

There are those with profound disabilities who need full time care and for whom having to turn up for interviews at intervals to prove they haven't miraculously recovered enough to work is insane.

There are those with moderate to significant difficulties who with the right programme and support would love to work in the way that they are able.

There are those who would bloody love to work or try very hard to work as best they can with disabilities, particularly chronic illnesses, but are permanently walloped by the government pushed demands around attendance and sick days. You can't have it both ways, to push for attendance and disciplinaries against those who can't make their body be sufficiently normal and expect them to stay in the work force.

There are the disabled who are reliant on carers because of their degree of physical difficulty, who are not ill or unqualified, a colleague of mine has a post grad degree and is excellent in her field. She has to strictly limit her hours as if she works too much she loses her carers and could never earn enough to pay for the 24 hour support she needs due to not being independently mobile.

And so on and so on.

A lot of these aren't people with the time or confidence to play the system, are scared of the system, and many won't even try to see what they might be entitled to. And yes, there are some who are confident and are good at the system and are getting the support that many of those above would love to have.

A whole raft of joined up thinking and approaches are needed, but it's not going to be cheap or time saving, or electorally popular.

I just hope the "added help" getting into work isn't more crappy contracts involving the same regurgitated cv writing, interview skills etc that they mandate everyone to despite it being unsuitable for many people. More funding for the amazing organisations that help people with disabilities or barriers into work should be the focus. More opportunities to gain extra skills or quick qualifications would be useful and some work experience with guaranteed job if the candidate is suitable would be more effective

Funding and incentives to employers to be more flexible with appointments, sick days, support strategies and accommodations would also keep a lot of people in work. Going part time is useless if you can't guarantee your body will only fall apart on your days off.

Disability covers such a range of things.

I think one of the big difficultes is a lot of disabilities fluctuate, day to day or even within a day. A lot of work requires consistency and reliability.

I do think think the benefits system needs a good hard look.I know a few genuinely disabled people who are wheelchair users and they all manage to work and enjoy it.But I have a family member who at the age of 42 has never had a job since leaving school,her parents supported her for years but now as pensioners they can no longer afford to.She suddenly developed ‘social anxiety’,and lo and behold is now in receipt if PIP and UC.She has no outgoings,still lives at home with her parents and has more disposable income than my son who works as a carer with autistic children.It’s a bloody sham and it will be the genuine disabled who will be targeted.

Yes she will likely be on over 1k a month on even lower rate PIP and the Limited capability for work element of UC. her parents need to take some of that off her for living there- hopefully they do. There are just so many people like this, but with the right help and support in the right job they could work. My brother has a nephew who has social anxiety - resulting in just sitting in his room playing playstation for years on end. It is sad and really can't be much of a life. These people need support to be integrated back into the workforce.

The problem with this statement is that all kinds of health conditions come under the disabled umbrella, including mental health conditions, learning difficulties, illnesses that are disabling in themselves as well as people with severe disabilities. I don’t know how you can make this kind of comment about a large and diverse group of people. There will always be people in society who are unable to work and are vulnerable. As a decent society we should be looking after them. Additionally, many people want to work but their conditions are unpredictable and variable. Show me an employer who would be happy to employ someone not knowing whether they were doing to be able to do the job on any given day.

Not all of them.

You clearly have contempt for disabled people - and that comes from someone who personally knows several people who play the system.

It is a slippery slope to assume that. One day you may become ill or have an accident that disables you so you can no longer work. Karma's a bitch.

Could you all remember that not all disabilities are visible? A person who uses a wheelchair might well be better able than a person with a severe and enduring mental health condition, a person with a learning disability might look OK but not be able to work, or find anyone who will give them a chance. People are individuals , some are more able/capable than others and should be assessed accordingly, and also given support and real, practical help. Are we going back to the 'deserving and undeserving poor', model of Victorian times?

I am worried for the genuinely disabled. Equally - I can see a state dependency rate of 54.2% and not enough people paying in - isn’t sustainable.

There are a lot of people here assuming other people's health or capabilities 😕

Old people being targeted is plain wrong. Most have paid their dues and a lot of retired on state pension provide childcare for grandchildren etc. No civilised society would treat their elderly like this, especially in a wealthy country.

I read a comment online a few days ago that said people over 70 should all be DNR because they use too many young people's resources. WTAF?

I wonder if those young people will be happy to be treated like that when they're older - especially as medical advances mean that many people will live longer, healthier lives.

What do you mean next, disabled people have been dying for years due to justifiable benefits claims being turned down and have been vilified by the press and the government for years, this is not a new thing

And if the government actually gave a shit about disabled people working they would stop whining about people working from home

I have a chronic illness. I would love to work but what job would possibly accept me having to call in sick about 50 percent of the time as I never know which days will be a capable day and which won't? Also why should a business or work colleagues have to put up with me having 50% of the time off as my workload would fall to them. I considered self employment but what self employment could I get away with not being able to work half the time? Every body I know with their own business has to work double hard to get it off the ground?

People don't think the practicalities through of forcing sick people into the workplace.

Not sure where you get that from- state pensions cost over £120billion a year and at least 20% go to millionaires. Despite that pensioners are getting an increase way above any other benefit claimants. It’s the present generation of workers who are paying for this too.

despite this, and the fact that the triple lock increases alone cost £11 billion last year, no political party has even suggested moderating the increase in pensions never mind means testing. Of course this is partly paid for by continuing to increase the pension age for workers who are paying for these pensions.

The current generation of pensioners as a whole tend to vote and also tend to vote Tory. Hence why they are sitting pretty

People can argue about what stops people from working and what doesn’t all they like. Can’t stop the facts. The chancellor was told by his own reports the excessive tax cliffs are harming tax take. Problem 1. We are now getting into colossal debt as our outgoings are much higher than tax take. Problem 2. A whopping 54.2% of adults are now state dependent as the ONS announced this year. The majority of adults are now state dependents. Problem 3.

That needs fixing and it needs the politicians of all colour to have a frank and honest conversation with everyone in the country before we get even poorer as a nation. The facts and figures are out there as a matter of public record.

I'm 67; I have NEVER, EVER voted Tory. I first voted in February 1974 and have always voted Labour. So please don't think we are all the same.

Fund the nhs properly for starters. There are 7m people waiting for appointments. Many are now on long term sick who wouldn’t be if they could get their treatment.

Begin talks with the striking workers for starters so things don’t keep getting worse. And give nurses a decent payrise in April so it doesn’t all start again.

under investment in the NHS is a false economy.

The current pensioner generation are much more likely than any other demographic to vote and to vote Tory. Of course that doesn’t mean absolutely every pensioner votes Tory. But the tories know this is their core vote so make sure to keep them happy.

It's fine to want more people in the workforce. The current welfare situation is unsustainable. But, and it is a huge but, this needs to be with appropriate workplace practices, flexible working, proper adjustments for different needs, accepting part time work and getting rid of attendance policies that punish people for having a long term health condition.

It can't be all stick and cut finances until people are in desperate poverty so they have no choice to but to work until their health is dire to have a basic existence. What concerns me is that the Tories would love that because poor, unwell people who are barely surviving won't have much strength to push back.

Unfortunately a frank and honest conversation isn't going to cure my chronic illness and make me a capable and reliable worker. Perhaps medical treatment would, but unfortunately in the 3 years I have been ill I have received absolutely no treatment or help, just long wait lists for disappointing waste of time appointments. If the government really want to get sick people working perhaps they need to adequately fund health care and health research.