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To think this, is how the Tories could win?

1000 replies

madamreign · 29/09/2023 09:35

Sunak is setting out his stall as pro-car:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/28/rishi-sunak-expected-to-limit-powers-of-councils-in-england-to-curb-car-use-20mph-speed-limit-traffic-camera-fines

This could actually swing it for him. People sink vast amounts of time and money into their cars, they're aspirational status symbols. The UK loves it's cars.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
49
user1497207191 · 29/09/2023 13:20

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:12

There is no Labour vision
There is no Labour values or policies.

Its an empty vessel.
I have asked repeatedly for someone to justify why anyone should vote for Labour. Radio silence.

So whilst it’s admirable you have tried to pick apart my list, it’s much harder to produce anything remotely similar for Labour.

Our economy is motoring along despite the war, the debts and the COL this maters. We can’t afford the nhs and generous benefits system without a strong economy.

Yep, empty vessel is what they are. Around here, we have a very active Labour councillor who is aiming to be the party candidate at the next GE. When I asked her exactly what her plans were to grow the local economy, reduce unemployment and improve job opportunities, she couldn't answer and then started gibbering about other things such as increasing benefits, funding schools and hospitals, etc - i.e. all about spending money (paid for of course by taxing the rich) but not about growing the economy to reduce dependence on the start. She couldn't say one policy about encouraging businesses to locate to our area nor about how local businesses could grow. She really was a true empty vessel. Shame because she seems like a nice person and committed to the area, but to not have a clue at all about how to grow the local economy is a pretty big omission!

The Tory guy (current MP) is the opposite. He's never around, doesn't give a shit about people on benefits nor the NHS etc., but he gets things done. He's achieved all kinds of "big" things locally, such as a new industrial estate, new motorway link road, a couple of big old derelict entertainment venues brought back to life, all by securing substantial government grants - he's the kind who'd rather rub shoulders with the decision-makers in Parliament than chat to constituents in Asda on Sunday afternoon, but he does get things done that benefit the area.

None of that matters because I won't be voting for either of them, but I think it demonstrates the difference in attitude between the parties.

midgemadgemodge · 29/09/2023 13:20

Pro car

Doesn't that put you off? I want pro people not pro things

cardibach · 29/09/2023 13:21

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:01

Green deal what does that even mean?

I don’t think anyone has been lying ‘abroad’ 🤷🏼‍♀️

Extra staff hasn’t been costed or agreed. I understood Labour have been at pains to say they won’t be doing that.

Is that it???

Is that the sum total of the Labour vision??

And that pitiful list has secured your vote??

Fuck me. I have waited all this time for that….

You really struggle with comprehension don’t you?
the Green New Deal has been laid out in detail. Have a little look.
I didn’t say lying abroad, I said breaking agreements abroad. They lie. We know that’s true, we all have ears - plus Johnson was proven to be a liar, and Sunak just cancelled a 7 bin policy that nobody ever had in the first place. They have said they intend to break agreements. Nobody trusts us anymore.
I said there was more. There’s a lot more, but actually ‘the Tories are corrupt, lying incompetents’ is quite a good reason to vote for someone else.

I read your list of good reasons to vote Tory and was going to detail why it’s all nonsense (a lot of it boils down to - we are in this situation after 14 years of Tories, they caused the problem so why do you think they’ll solve it?) but decided it was pointless. You believe any old bobbins against Labour but won’t accept any criticism of Tories. You will vote for them. Fine. Nobody can change that so I’ll save my breath/fingers typing.

midgemadgemodge · 29/09/2023 13:21

And the tories actually have an answer about how to make our lives better , how to grow wages and improve the nhs and schools and education ?

Clearly they don't have an answer as they have had over a decade o think and all those things have got worse not better

TrashedSofa · 29/09/2023 13:24

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:13

You clearly have no respect for reality

Bold words from someone who's invented as much as you have in this thread.

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:26

Mumbleer · 29/09/2023 13:18

With respect, it's hard to produce a similar list as Labour aren't able to back their claims up with any action as they aren't in power yet. Although I could take Khan's strong action on ULEZ as an example of being totally serious about doing something about air quality in London.

All of your claims about the good work of the Tories are demonstrably bogus - their actions and character the opposite of what you wrote. So I can't trust them at all.

Shit I should have checked my last post for typos. Apologies.

It is not hard for Labour to produce a vision.
it’s not hard to say we care about x, y and z and this is what we will do.

The fact they are working so hard to find a vision shows Labour is nowhere near ready to take the reins.

No one knows what on earth Labour even stand for these days. It used to be the unions, but seemingly no longer 🤷🏼‍♀️

No one is asking for a full manifesto!

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:26

TrashedSofa · 29/09/2023 13:24

Bold words from someone who's invented as much as you have in this thread.

😂😂👏🏻

EasternStandard · 29/09/2023 13:28

the80sweregreat · 29/09/2023 13:07

I believe this too ;(
The Tories have a lot of ammunition and good at elections. Never underestimate them

I’m surprised at these posts saying they’ll win

Maybe, I mean I’m not looking forward to Starmer but I guess we’ll see

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:28

cardibach · 29/09/2023 13:21

You really struggle with comprehension don’t you?
the Green New Deal has been laid out in detail. Have a little look.
I didn’t say lying abroad, I said breaking agreements abroad. They lie. We know that’s true, we all have ears - plus Johnson was proven to be a liar, and Sunak just cancelled a 7 bin policy that nobody ever had in the first place. They have said they intend to break agreements. Nobody trusts us anymore.
I said there was more. There’s a lot more, but actually ‘the Tories are corrupt, lying incompetents’ is quite a good reason to vote for someone else.

I read your list of good reasons to vote Tory and was going to detail why it’s all nonsense (a lot of it boils down to - we are in this situation after 14 years of Tories, they caused the problem so why do you think they’ll solve it?) but decided it was pointless. You believe any old bobbins against Labour but won’t accept any criticism of Tories. You will vote for them. Fine. Nobody can change that so I’ll save my breath/fingers typing.

The green deal that is going to charge cars by the mile up and down the country? Charging cars to go into cities? Making everywhere 20mph.

Great - I can’t wait! 😳

user1497207191 · 29/09/2023 13:28

midgemadgemodge · 29/09/2023 13:21

And the tories actually have an answer about how to make our lives better , how to grow wages and improve the nhs and schools and education ?

Clearly they don't have an answer as they have had over a decade o think and all those things have got worse not better

That's why I won't be voting either Tory nor Labour - neither have a bloody clue.

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:29

EasternStandard · 29/09/2023 13:28

I’m surprised at these posts saying they’ll win

Maybe, I mean I’m not looking forward to Starmer but I guess we’ll see

It is surprising I agree.

TrashedSofa · 29/09/2023 13:29

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:26

😂😂👏🏻

Is there an electoral swingometer smiley? Maybe we need one.

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:30

You wouldn’t win

TrashedSofa · 29/09/2023 13:31

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:30

You wouldn’t win

I shan't be standing, so that doesn't come as a great surprise.

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:31

TrashedSofa · 29/09/2023 13:31

I shan't be standing, so that doesn't come as a great surprise.

Shame 😬

cardibach · 29/09/2023 13:32

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:28

The green deal that is going to charge cars by the mile up and down the country? Charging cars to go into cities? Making everywhere 20mph.

Great - I can’t wait! 😳

No. That’s not the Green New Deal. Or a Labour policy.

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:32

You would probably be more successful than the rest of them - even without economics being your strong suit 💪🏻

Notonthestairs · 29/09/2023 13:33

20mph zones have been introduced around a number of primary schools in my town. Nobody seems to have complained about them at all.

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:33

cardibach · 29/09/2023 13:32

No. That’s not the Green New Deal. Or a Labour policy.

I am confused

What is the green deal then?

Jux · 29/09/2023 13:33

Mist people don't love cars, most people need cars. I live in a busy market town in Devon, we have a station, the city is 20 mins drive away, trains to an from are regular throughout the day (or are meant to be!). I used to go to evening classes in the city which ran from 7-9. In London I could have got a tube home, or train or any number of buses at 9pm. The first class I went to, I stayed behind a little while, 5 mins, to just have a quick chat with a couple of classmates - we were all strangers - and then trundled off to the station, about a 10 min walk. No trains. Last one had gone 15mins ago, 9pm!

Yes, I should have checked that, but honestly, I'd lived in London all my life and the last anything was NEVER that early. It just didn't occur to me that it could be a reality.

No bloody wonder so many youth round here drink and drive.

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:34

Notonthestairs · 29/09/2023 13:33

20mph zones have been introduced around a number of primary schools in my town. Nobody seems to have complained about them at all.

Ofc no one minds around school, but everywhere else?

DdraigGoch · 29/09/2023 13:37

user1497207191 · 29/09/2023 13:11

And yet, we have no choice but to accept incompetent idiots governing us for another 5 years, just a different kind of incompetence and what colour rosette they wear. Wonderful isn't it??

At the moment I'm beginning to regard the Official Monster Raving Loony Party as the most sensible bunch out there.

Still, could be worse. A couple of nights ago, I was sharing a dorm with a group of Americans (that's not the bad bit). Had a bit of a rant about our clueless idiots and one of them said "yeah, we've got it bad too". I pointed out that their politicians were in a completely different league.

TrashedSofa · 29/09/2023 13:38

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:32

You would probably be more successful than the rest of them - even without economics being your strong suit 💪🏻

I must say, it is genuinely interesting how some of our more midwitted contributors responded to not very controversial points about why and how the Tories are fucked. It was treated as a partisan point, and some of you thought you could make party political arguments against it because you would like it not to be true.

SherbetDips · 29/09/2023 13:38

@CurlewKate spot on! Like a lot off ppl not loving this government but the alternative is not for me

Mumbleer · 29/09/2023 13:39

Lastchancechica · 29/09/2023 13:26

Shit I should have checked my last post for typos. Apologies.

It is not hard for Labour to produce a vision.
it’s not hard to say we care about x, y and z and this is what we will do.

The fact they are working so hard to find a vision shows Labour is nowhere near ready to take the reins.

No one knows what on earth Labour even stand for these days. It used to be the unions, but seemingly no longer 🤷🏼‍♀️

No one is asking for a full manifesto!

A 10-second search on Google and I found this: https://labour.org.uk/missions/

So

  1. Growing the economy - yep 👍 Rethinking the EU relationship would help with that

  2. Clean energy superpower - sounds great. I think Keir did expand on that and the plans were solid. More jobs, lower bills, better for environment, less reliance on warmongers for energy - excellent.

  3. NHS - if we lose this, it will be a disaster. NHS Dentistry has pretty much gone for large swathes of the country and I think the Tories have spent the last 13 years starving resources and leaving people with no choice but to pay out for quicker treatment. Basically testing our willingness to pay - wider healthcare will be next (already happening).

  4. Crime - a vote winner, but I'm not convinced by any party on this issue. But things are getting worse

  5. Schools and education - I trust labour on this over the Tories, any day of the week

5 Missions for a better Britain - The Labour Party

Labour is setting out five national missions that we will build our manifesto around and, if elected, guide us in government.

https://labour.org.uk/missions

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