To think this, is how the Tories could win?

[madamreign]

Sunak is setting out his stall as pro-car:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/28/rishi-sunak-expected-to-limit-powers-of-councils-in-england-to-curb-car-use-20mph-speed-limit-traffic-camera-fines

This could actually swing it for him. People sink vast amounts of time and money into their cars, they're aspirational status symbols. The UK loves it's cars.

You really are misunderstanding

Recessions are bad, people care when they happen

It doesn’t mean polls are always positive when we’re out of them

Honestly it’s not hard

No, it's a partial explanation for what we know about how fucked the Tories are.

You appear to be mixing me up with someone else. I've never said on MN who I intend to vote for at the next GE, much less on this thread.

Green deal what does that even mean?

I don’t think anyone has been lying ‘abroad’ 🤷🏼‍♀️

Extra staff hasn’t been costed or agreed. I understood Labour have been at pains to say they won’t be doing that.

Is that it???

Is that the sum total of the Labour vision??

And that pitiful list has secured your vote??

Fuck me. I have waited all this time for that….

I'm more and more convinced that Labour don't actually want to be in power. They'd much rather be in opposition, just lazily criticising from the sidelines. People like Raynor, Nandi and Streeting have brilliant voices for whining but not for much else.

But you are staunchly defending Labour

Ultimately, you've completely failed to explain why you think the predictions you linked to have any relevance to the behaviour of the electorate. Which you clearly know, actually, hence the deviations about reasonable and just words.

I whole heartedly agree 👏🏻

The latest announcements on more migrants policy, building on green belt, women have penises. They are actively trying to lose.

Quote me a single post on this thread where I've given a view on Labour policy at all.

I give up 🤷🏼‍♀️

I believe this too ;(
The Tories have a lot of ammunition and good at elections. Never underestimate them

Where to start with this...

"Competent and experienced" - let's see. The first PM allowed a disastrous vote to leave the EU and sailed into the wind as soon as he lost as he couldn't deal with it. The second couldn't get her deal agreed by her colleagues. The third broke the law several times. The fourth crashed the economy and wrecked everything in a matter of weeks. The fifth worked with all of them and supported them through the disasters.

Next, what exactly is your problem with Angela Raynor? Fact that she's a woman? Working class background and accent?

What fight have the Conservatives put up in terms of women's rights? All the shit has started on their watch!

Border control and immigration have been a TOTAL SHAMBLES under the Conservatives. It's never been worse than it is now. But we actually need working age, professional tax payers to immigrate to help grow the economy, so I would welcome EU folk back in.

Conservatives will "Protect our green belt and wildlife" - by opposing measures to reduce greenhouse gases like ULEZ and speed limits? Funny way of showing that, Rishi. See also: https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2023/09/21/sunak-proves-why-the-un-was-right-to-snub-the-uk-pm-for-its-climate-ambition-summit/

Expanding world alliances? See above. Also, weren't we just left out of a major meeting between the EU, major Asian economies and the US? Embarrassing.

I don't know why you're afraid of the world running away from a Labour government when they are already snubbing the Conservative one 🤷🏻‍♀️

I admit I haven't properly looked at Labour's proposed policies but will do nearer the election. But all your reasons for supporting the Conservatives are dodgy, at best.

Labour seem to be trying to lose, maybe they just can’t face the mountain ahead. I don’t actually blame them. Far easier to be paid and not have to make the hard decisions.

Thank fuck for that.

Meanwhile, the Tories are fucked, the economy is a big part of that, and no amount of throwing toys out of prams from supporters who don't want to hear it will make any difference to either of those things.

Spell Out why the ‘reasons’ in the post I quoted are nonsense? Yo7 genuinely believe the Jimmy Savile nonsense? And the rest?
Unbelievable.

And yet, we have no choice but to accept incompetent idiots governing us for another 5 years, just a different kind of incompetence and what colour rosette they wear. Wonderful isn't it??

What a sad view of humanity.
plots of people do that. You probably call them ‘champagne socialists’ and look down on them.

There is no Labour vision
There is no Labour values or policies.

Its an empty vessel.
I have asked repeatedly for someone to justify why anyone should vote for Labour. Radio silence.

So whilst it’s admirable you have tried to pick apart my list, it’s much harder to produce anything remotely similar for Labour.

Our economy is motoring along despite the war, the debts and the COL this maters. We can’t afford the nhs and generous benefits system without a strong economy.

I can actually start to believe it, just like Corbyn who clearly didn't want to win either.

You’re aware there’s a winter between now and May?

You clearly have no respect for reality

If Labour really wanted to win, they wouldn’t choose Corbyn or Starmer.

They could have given Yvette Cooper a chance - she is eloquent, passionate and capable. Maybe it aa because she is a CIS.

With respect, it's hard to produce a similar list as Labour aren't able to back their claims up with any action as they aren't in power yet. Although I could take Khan's strong action on ULEZ as an example of being totally serious about doing something about air quality in London.

All of your claims about the good work of the Tories are demonstrably bogus - their actions and character the opposite of what you wrote. So I can't trust them at all.

100% this. I see the Tory Defence League have been out in force for the past few days but frankly, they're just spitting into the ocean now.

Everyone can see the impacts of tory rule through our declining standards of living, crumbling infrastructure, and failing services.

Even traditionally tory media outlets are struggling to put a positive spin on things now and you can see them starting to distance themselves, with only the most died in the wool conservatives still gobbling down the "it's all Labour's / migrants / the EU's fault" line.

13 years of complete failure and utter incompetence is the legacy they'll leave.