Husband wants to go on expeditions

[Jude628]

Hi,

My husband is in the forces and spends a lot of time away from our family (3 year old and 10 month old). My mother in law is 4 hours away and rest of family is a flight away so I don’t have any help day to day and that’s fine- I manage (not always thriving but it is what it is and love being a mother and support his career).

However, my husband recently wrote me a letter telling me he has not been truly happy since our eldest arrives as he feels like he can’t follow his passion- going on expeditions eg rowing oceans, climbing risky mountains like Everest and K2- things that take a month or two at least to complete. He is asking permission to do these things…on top of his job, and spend more time away from us and I don’t know what to do! I want him to be happy but I also don’t want to agree to being a single parent 80% of the time.

Any advice please?

How utterly selfish he is.

I suppose you fell in love with him knowing what he was but, god, I would find the kind of man who wants to go up Everest so bloody boring and tedious. Hasn't every bro in the world gone up there now littering their trash and risking their lives on the back of the sherpas?

Check his life insurance very carefully.

Another very good point.

Surely he realises that if he stops being a husband and father to his family, he will stop having one?

Did he grow up in an orphanage? Or boarding school?

I’m sorry but you sound a complete doormat.

Cautionary tale; I have a friend who was a forces wife , she facilitated all of his adventurous whims and was practically a single parent to their three dc. When he was home he appeared to be gods gift to parenthood . When the youngest hit university he left her, apparently she just wasn’t exciting enough, turned out he’d been getting lots of ‘excitement’ on the side for years . She had lived away from family , sacrificed her career but none of it was valued.

I think even every 2-3 years is too much. Many of these expeditions can easily be 2 months long. And they cost an arm and a leg. Once every 5 years would be my limit. And I say that as someone who happily leaves her DH for 1-2 months every 2nd year to go on an adventure, but that's why we don't have kids.

I'd say that if he wants to go on 'expeditions' and so on, he needs to leave the armed forces and find a job that doesn't take him away from the family. You obviously knew when you had children that he would be away a certain amount of the time because of his job, and you accepted that (which he should be grateful for, because a lot of women wouldn't) - but he's now trying to move the goalposts by going away even more, for no reason other than his own enjoyment, and that wasn't what you signed up for. So I'd be inclined to say he can do one or the other, but not both.

And yes, agree that he needs one hell of an insurance policy against death and serious injury. Presumably if he's injured or killed while working there's some kind of compensation from the forces, but I'm guessing that wouldn't apply if he falls head first down a fucking mountain while playing at being Edmund Hillary.

Just to point out the K2 death rate.

For every 100 people who successfully summit, 23 people die.

The ratio for Everest is about 3.9 to 100.

If he is talking about doing K2 you need to have a VERY serious conversation about this (and life insurance).

It's really not on if you have young kids imho.

I just want to add that he does want to there for our kids, he doesn’t want to miss out, he loves taking them on appropriate adventures but his passion is high adrenaline adventures. Some great advice thank you. I was lucky I adjusted to the sacrifice of becoming a parent quite naturally but for others it is much harder. He is torn and I want to do the right thing for everyone and really appreciate your answers :) the letter was because he finds it easier to write everything down- we have of course talked in person about this too but often the convo doesn’t get anywhere without one of us becoming upset.

I'm sorry but it is very naive to think someone who goes on extreme expeditions will adapt to that life, they wouldn't.

I'm not saying it's wrong for OP to expect more but she also has to be realistic. People who are involved in such activities live and thrive off it, it's like an addiction.

I've watched a lot of videos and stories about such expeditions and it's a very different mindset from the average person. This is a mindset that sees nothing wrong with walking past dead bodies frozen at the top of mountains because they have a singleminded focus on getting to the top of the mountain. This is mindset that will keep going despite the fact that they can die at literally any second, and their body may not even be recovered for a proper burial. Go watch videos about summiting Everest, K2 etc, very dangerous mountains yet these people pay huge sums to still try to summit.

This is like getting married to say a professional boxer then getting upset that he spends too much time away at training camp and fights, many times these boxers fall into severe depression when they stop fighting and don't get the high anymore. It's not the same as just saying stop it and that it. This is why you have boxers who are unable to stop boxing even as they get older and no longer at the top of their game but they just can't stop. Look at Tyson Fury, he stops boxing and he spirals into depression and other bad things.

Again I'm not saying OP shouldn't want more but she needs to be realistic, I don't think there's a scenario where he just focuses on scouts as you say and they will have a happy long lasting marriage.

And that's if this story is true in the first place tbh.

And the cost:

For Everest:
However, climbers can expect to spend anywhere between $32,000 (USD) and $200,000 depending on the type of expedition, what is included in the price, and the level of luxury expected.

And K2:
There, a permit costs $11,000 per person. As a result, a large number of independent climbers gather on K2 every summer, sharing permits and Base Camp logistics. Beginning in 2023, expeditions to K2 will pay $12,000 for a seven-member team and $3,000 for each additional member

The K2 cost isn't taking into account any of your equipment (oxygen, tents, coats, boots, axes, ropes etc none of which is cheap and much of it can't be reused).

It's now difficult to get sponsorship for these trips because so many people are doing them. It's not undoable but you still have to have something of a unique selling point.

As my mother was often prone to say ‘wanting isn’t a good enough reason for having’

Because we must never expect men to consider this when THEY decide to have children, we should fully expect that all sacrifice and considerations should be on us whilst their life goes on unchanged. 🙄

Once the youngest is 4, they will be less work, OP. I would say it's out of the question until then - what is he thinking?! - but after maybe something every couple of years, but then you need breaks too. How is he going to make that happen?

It's a hobby. We all have them. It doesn't have some intrinsic merit because it's a less popular and dangerous one.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/brit-feared-dead-climbing-one-27589077.amp

This happened to a colleague of my husband, so although I understand his desire for high-octane adventure I think my limit would be once every 5 years and only with a metric-fuck-tonne of appropriate insurance.

Oh cut it out, there are many women who are involved in this activity as well and have the same mindset. There was a story recently of a female doctor who was criticized for leaving behind someone who was dying on the side of the mountain just to continue to summit, that's the mindset I'm talking about.

They literally use dead bodies littered across the mountains as markers for their route.

If you want to make it a man v woman issue then that's different and I guess goodluck to OP, she might as well LTB and move on with her life.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/11/norwegian-mountaineer-says-her-team-tried-to-save-porter-who-died-on-k2

https://www.markhorrell.com/blog/2019/what-happened-to-alison-hargreaves-on-k2/

And the funny thing is many times children of such people also end up pursuing similar activities, so there a chance one of her kids may do the same.

I think he's being extremely selfish. Don't blind yourself with how engaged he is when he's home, that's bloody easy when your hardly home.

If you're included to be more positive about this than I am I would put some clear conditions in. This doesn't start till the youngest is in school, every 3 years is the minimum gap and he makes sure you get some time away for every one he does, he parents for this he does not rope family in to help. He honestly has no idea what he is asking of you.

Have you read anything by Andy Kirkpatrick?

He's a climber who used to do 'the big expeditions' but does continue to do some - but not to the same extremes as he did. In part because of the sheer number of friends who he's lost.

And that's it - if he continues, he almost certainly WILL kill himself.

He needs to start finding life fulfillment from other sources. Or he will die. That's really not an exaggeration if you look at the record of people who want this lifestyle.

The OP needs to get this through her head (she needs to be both mentally and financially prepared for it and in terms of how she will tell the kids) AND she needs to be repeating this to her husband.

Scouts or whatever may be a major step down, but he either deals with that and there's some very compromise that goes on in terms of what expeditions there are (K2 should be firmly off limits to anyone who wishes to not make their wife a widow).

(Kirkpatrick is divorced but has a daughter he helped climb when she was a kid - some pretty extreme stuff but miles more reasonable than the likes of K2).

There are ways the OPs husband can find a fix in a proactive but reasonable way that is rewarding.

If he wants.

No, you cut it out, acting like it’s OPs job to facilitate this because he didn’t think through HIS OWN choices. He has responsibilities now, he doesn’t just get to opt out, but nice job trying to turn it into a battle of the sexes.

I'm sorry - I haven't read all of the responses. Does it sounds as though he is unhappy enough that this is a marriage deal breaker if you don't say yes to this new life?

@LaurieFairyCake

“I didn’t agree to being a single parent, your children deserve your input. Plenty of time to do that in 18 years. Perhaps if you find a Time Machine we can go back and discuss this BEFORE we had the children we agreed to"

I don’t disagree with your sentiment but no one is guaranteed to live another 18 years. No one should put stuff off entirely until their kids are grown - cos they may not be alive then

She knew what he did and still married and had kids with him, so yes there is naivety in her part as well to expect he will suddenly turn into Johnny next door who is always around and focus on "scouts".

And my point was yes she should speak to him and try to find a compromise but you saying he should just focus on scouts is naive and unrealistic and will NOT happen.

And you turned it into a battle of sexes but welcome for trying to spin around. I was just giving examples of the mindset and you made it about sexes.

No he is not the kind of man to end our marriage over this, I do want to make this clear. He is worried because he has this passion that doesn’t agree with family life and we want to work out a solution. Sorry there are a lot of comments, wasn’t expecting this yikes! I also have my own career but I’m self employed and work from home so it works well with the kids.

Good grief. There is selfish and then there is him. He's a man with responsibilities. He needs to decide whether he actually wants to be in this relationship or not. At the moment it sounds like he is happy to go off gallivanting, leaving you to do all the donkey work and keep you dancing on a thread. I'd also wonder what other adventures and life experiences he wishes to indulge in. It sounds like he is not so gently backing away.

How can he bear to be away from his tiny, quickly-growing children even more than he already is for work?

I'm sorry but I'm hearing alarm bells from MILES away that he's not invested in his family/marriage and wants out. This will just be the first step. No committed family man and father looks at his life and thinks 'I'm away from my wife and tiny kids for months every year, let's increase that time spent away'

Even if he did want to do that and struggled with not following this passion, a mature, adult man would realise that he has bigger commitments for the time being, maybe some hiking with the baby in a backpack when he's home but he certainly wouldn't be planning more time away.

Where's his sense of responsibility and love for his family? Why on earth does he think it's okay to leave you to parent solo even longer?

If he decided to get another job that wasn't away from home so he could spend some time away adventuring... fine. But working away AND wanting to do this just screams to me he's checked out and will shortly be suggesting a separation to fulfil his dreams.