To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

It’s ADHD.

you have just described a typical morning in my household, and my son has ADHD.

The things you think aren’t ADHD are classic signs- hyper focus, talking in depth about favourite subjects.

The fact that he does well at school doesn’t mean much- my DS does well at school despite having ADHD.

you need to get this assessed.

in the meantime, I’m afraid you’re going to have to get up half an hour earlier and allocate some time specifically to getting him ready. Walk him through everything- take him to bathroom, make him take a shower, brush his teeth, get dressed. Don’t leave him alone.

get him ready last, so you can get him out of the house asap.

also- make sure all books/pe kit is packed and ready to go the night before. Leave it at front door.

in car, do a kit check.

If he forgets anything, he has to live with consequences. It’s not ideal, but you can’t keep being late for work.

i didn’t understand my son had adhd for a long time because he could focus when he was vested. But SEN aside: thing that really helps us is a concept he made up:

“no fun til jobs done”

so he is not allowed to read or play computer games until his bag is packed for the next day.

when his alarm goes of in the morning he has to brush his teeth and get dressed before he reads a book.

the key (for us at least) is to not have a system where I am constantly reminding him and he feels got at. So he/we have hard rules about how things are done. This helps him manage his own time, not get told off and feel more in control.

Sounds similar to my DD. Diagnosed with inattentive ADHD and autism age 15.
Nothing picked up in primary or secondary school at all. Bright if a little socially awkward. Because she was bright, she actually developed her own ways to get by, she wanted to do well, tried her damned best but by yr9 her techniques that had previously got her by, just weren't good enough anymore to keep up with her peers and she began to fall apart. Took forever to do anything at all. Distracted by everything. Always late, has no sense of time. Can not focus on for finish a task. But a special interest like a particular type of film, she can hyperfocus and tell you every little detail. Everything is done in a huge stressful rush at the last minute.

I had no idea she might be neurodiverse, it came from her she told me she thought she had inattentive ADHD which I'd never heard of.
Finally diagnosed in December of yr11, meds started a month or so before her GCSEs and it's made such a difference to her. She can concentrate and focus, take in and understand the teacher. She says when not taking the meds, her brain is just chaos, a million thoughts all crashing about in her head at once, she hears sounds but her brain can't process them in to useful information. With the meds her brain is just more ordered and let's her be able to do stuff she needs to do.

Your son sounds like he really does want to try and be 'good' but his brain just won't let him cos it's just all a bit jumbled and chaotic when processing instructions. Google inattentive ADHD and see how many boxes he ticks. Have a chat with the senco and gp or a private ADHD centre

Is asbergers a possibility?

ADHD is now also sometimes known as ADD - because not all people have the hyperactivity bit. DS was diagnosed ADHD because ten years ago I think that was just the thing - but you're right. not all kids bounce off walls.

That said - DS was a fidgeter at primary school and was given fidget toys and a wobble cushion. But now he's 15 he's pretty laid back and apart from sometimes randomly singing stuff over and over, or giggling to himself at private jokes, he's mostly fairly calm and relaxed. He can spend hours lying on his bed on his phone. But the issues with focus and concentration are still there, so don't rule it out just because your DS isn't physically OTT.

My DD was diagnosed as an adult. Sounds very very much like ADHD to me.

You need a full assessment.
Sounds like Asperger's/ autism with executive planning and functional problems.
He has to learn to write everything down (himself not you) and remember to keep to lists, it really helps!

My daughter has inattentive type ADHD (also known as ADD). She is exactly like this. It doesn't mean she doesn't have excellent concentration in things that interest her or that she isn't clever - she does well at school, with some adjustments. But she really struggled with boring, mundane, routine things. It's very frustrating for all of us. She isn't hyperactive at all. She is calm and fairly sedentary!

I can see a lot of previous posters have mentioned ADD, and I think they are right. I read your post with tears in my eyes because you described my son so exactly. I just wish someone had alerted me to the fact that this may be the case years ago. My son is now 23 and life for him has become so difficult, resulting in debilitating MH issues that we’re trying desperately to address.
Like you, because my son wasn’t showing the hyperactivity associated with ADHD I never considered it, I just assumed he was disorganised. If you leave things and don’t try to get a diagnosis and help, he may go the way of my lovely boy who is now deeply depressed, anxious, and can’t hold down a job.
I really wish you and your boy all the best.

That isn’t a diagnosis anymore. They would be described as being on the autism spectrum.

Just to pick up on this point:

He sits still for hours doing lego or playing with sand or making scenes with his toys.

He may be sitting still, but he’s still doing physical actions, isn’t he? Does he fiddle with anything while watching the Harry Potter film?

Yes. Sorry, there must be something here, OP. He’s obviously not doing it on purpose, as demonstrated by his sheer panic at the thought of getting into trouble. I can’t read this and not believe that there isn’t something else going on with him.

Hope you get to the bottom of it. In the meantime- write a LIST! In my experience boys do much better with a physical list they can look at and tick tasks off. My dh does better with a list.

Organise all clothes, bags, shoes, PE kits, the night before. Yes it feels like a lot of extra work- but it’s impossible to forget your PE Kit if it’s already packed into the car the night before.

Consequences of his chaos should apply to DS, not everyone else.

You’re giving in and ruining everyone’s mornings to do his jobs. Try to let him fail and see if that fixes stuff before you call the doctor.

Get his stuff ready for him. How hard can it be? Do you struggle with memory and organisation too?

Think you've been so super focused on your SEN child you've missed the signs in your son. I don't mean that in any way nasty because managing kids needs is hard as fock. You try so hard that cracks emerge without us noticing.
Sounds either Adhd or an attention cry/emotional disregulation because focus has been on your other child.
I'd start with some kinda therapy for your son and see if they feel sen assessment needed or tap into your daughters support network.

im a mix at times but now so i dont forget i try to get my equipment ready in the evenings as best as possible, then its ready for the next day, eg running late but know the gear is ready

"He has not got SEN."

A child of this age with such poor working memory and no executive functioning skills absolutely does have SEN.

Agree with everyone else. Sort out an assessment and in the meantime change the way you do things before you all have a nervous breakdown.

Sort out everything you can do the night before. Stand over him as he packs his bag for school. Set an alarm on his and your phones to remind him when it is PE the next day, so the PE bag is packed the night before too. Put bags, shoes and coats by the front door ready for the next day.Put all his school clothes out ready in his bedroom.

Get up an hour or half an hour earlier and get yourself and your other children ready, then spend time supervising DS closely, giving him short simple instructions one by one, until he is ready for school.

Make multiple copies of his timetable, so one stays permanently in his bag, one in the car, one in his pocket and one in the kitchen.

I did wonder that, I'm obviously not up to date. I wonder how much of it is the most recent buzz words. I do think there is an element of pushing drugs for these kind of things though. I remember getting diagnosed with depression. I did my research and requested a specific drug, apparently it wasn't one the GP got points for prescribing, whatever that means. I'll probably be massively slated for this, but there seems to be a new syndrome every week, I am not denying that some are genuine, but eventually we will have a medication available for every possible human characteristic. It's just my slant on things, but probably not in keeping with today's thinking.

Google dyscalculia too. common with adhd.

When someone who is otherwise bright and has no trauma to blame is so inexplicably disordered, it’s very likely they have a diagnosable disorder.

Hyper focus can be a facet of ADHD https://www.additudemag.com/understanding-adhd-hyperfocus/

Within the 1st couple of lines, it’s screaming out to me ADHD! My DH has it and even at 33 years old, this sounds like our typical morning leaving the house! ITS HARD WORK. Basic stuff to remember (basic to me) he very very much struggles with. It took years for me to understand he’s not being ‘lazy’ and it’s actually his ADHD. Even after 12 years together there’s a lot of day to day things I struggle to understand why he can’t seem to do them when I ask or remember certain things but that really is the adhd! The hyper focus you mention is so true as well, he will be so engrossed to what he is doing sometimes, that he’s not paying attention to anything around him. I hope getting a diagnosis will help you guys. Good luck ❤️

So sorry to hear this @Throwingpots, I really hope your DS can get the help he needs and come out the other side. It's awful to think our children's MH depends on the knowledge and understanding of the wider community - if people don't recognise a condition the kids are the ones who suffer. My DS has ASD, I can't imagine how he would have been treated even a couple of decades ago.

This is EXACTLY my mornings with my 11 yo who has ASD & ADHD Believe me I have lost it a couple of times & it makes me feel horrible.

I have even done picture charts to show him step by step & he’ll see them every morning then like Dory the fish a second later it’s forgotten about.

I have no advice sorry, just wanted to let you know you’re not alone & it is so bloody hard! X

I'll reiterate what everyone else has said and recommend assessment for ADD/ ADHD. Big discrepancy between working memory and other aspects of ability/ memory is major indicator. In the meantime the morning routine needs to be simplified for everyone's sake.
Full uniform on bedroom door and he doesn't leave room till its all on. Bags packed the night before and left by the door/ in the car. Lunch made and in the fridge etc

Sounds like my son

He has a diagnosis of dyspraxia and has recently been referred as an adult for an adhd assessment.