To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

This is so uncalled for…vast majority of replies have been so supportive and evidently have already helped OP. No need for this at all.
OP you sound like you’re an amazing mum who’s trying her best. Keep up the great work and don’t mind this poster.

Dyscalculia, cant hold more than 2 things in head, or they forget everything, lower in maths
worth checking him out
i know it’s hard, but I do feel for him

1000% ADHD

Back off the aggro (completely understandable as an adult with insight but as a child you’ll ruin your ability to support him) and access resources to support - ADDitude magazine might be a place to look

Bloody hell, calm down moonshinesbright, she don’t need your negativity

Sounds just like my son. Same age. Same with excellent reading and vocab. Bad at maths.
Can recall whole parts of a movie he watched once about 8 months ago. Cannot remember to put his tie in the hanger. Cannot remember to empty his bag. Cannot remember to wash his face

I despair

People hyper focus too with adhd. Approach the school SEN teacher and discuss the issue and ask how they can help.

so what you need are different strategies because what you’re doing now isn’t working.

Wake him much earlier

use a wipe board with bullet point list of things to do. Use written language or symbols. Keep list somewhere obvious and keep the list short. Keep redirecting him to the board to score off each thing once it’s done.

prompt Alexa to remind him to check his list

sand timers or timers to focus for short stints of time

support him to get lots ready the night before

How is his handwriting? Can he be clumsy? Dyspraxia perhaps?

Dyslexia and ADHD absolutely scream out at me here. My son is several dyslexic and has ADHD, he has absolutely zero organisational skills, gets distracted by anything and everything.

I worry about this all the time! My son won’t cope with high school and I worry about him holding down a job. But, I think I have undiagnosed ADHD. I struggle with lots of things such as exercise function and distraction. But I have a degree and a good job. I have been disciplined for lateness in previous jobs because I couldn’t understand why it was important for me to be there on time as long as my work was done on time and I could never drag myself out of bed until the very last minute due to lack of executive function and inability to sleep early enough so I was always tired.
now I have my own kids I still struggle with the same things but I have to work really hard on my organisation and my kids have never been late for school in their life because I am now hyperfocused on timekeeping. I also have a job where I have enough autonomy that I arrive at work as soon as I can and leave when I need to. This takes time, qualifications and experience but I got there in the end. I still have days where I get nothing done but now I am capable of dealing with the consequence of that.
I also have a husband who knows what I’m like so if I ask him to do something because I just can’t he gets it and will do it.

I know I'm echoing, but honestly I wonder if he has SEN too, its clearly impacting on his life on a consistent basis, and its not as if he doesnt care about the consequences. My little boy has dyspraxia, which on the surface is a motor skills issue, but it truly shows itself with planning, organising and executing tasks. He cannot hold instructions in his head at all. His long term memory is outstanding, as is his verbal reasoning, his iq is really high, his grades are all above average, but he just can't do things that seem simple! Ultimately, we do a lot more for him. We also use a flow chart, and stick lists in prominent places (e.g. a list in the coat cupboard that says Monday - pe bag, school bag, coat, water bottle, Tuesday- school bag, coat, water bottle etc etc, there's a list in the bathroom - teeth, flush toilet, wash face, brush hair). It doesn't always work, but he can normally get to the right room and the lists are pinned in the place he does the activity. We also use sand timers, so a breakfast sand timer, getting dressed sand timer etc. Everything has to be broken down into tiny tasks, step by step. Everything has to go straight into its place when he gets home or he has no idea where it is.
If I were you, I'd look at it being something he needs help with rather than a choice he is making, there's no point shouting at him or telling him off because the negative consequence of detention isnt working and thats his ultimate sanction. I'd probably also give in and do a few things for him, he might be finding everything a bit overwhelming. Maybe break it down and go with "this week, I'll make sure your timetable is in your bag, and your clothes are out for you, so all you're responsible for is your pe bag" then add in more responsibilities as the weeks go on. Do a double check once you're in the car and make him check his bags and tell you he has them. I'd also give yourself longer in the mornings and get up earlier. If this happens most days, he might just need more time to factor in all the chasing he needs. Annoying, but maybe just till he's in the routine!
You have my sympathy, it sounds very frustrating! It drives me mad, yesterday I found my son naked except for a pj top and he just went "I'm not sure whats next". Its your pj bottoms mate, see how your legs are cold and bare and how the bottoms are out where I'd put them for you... "oh yeah.... sorry, wait, what do I need to do again?" Deep breaths!!

I actually felt panicked reading your post. I could have written it when my ds started senior school. Things that had not been big deal in his jr school became a huge deal in the seniors. The only thing that I did that helped was nightly packing bags for next day school and putting them in the car the night before. I also put breakfast bars in the car and cartons of chocolate milk (don't judge me sugar police) for the days when we need to buy some time by having breakfast in the car. I had his timetable enlarged and stuck to the fridge. DS was tested for ADD but did not meet the criteria as he could focus and concentrate, he did do well academically. His form teacher laughingly told me that he wouldn't change and "we all had friends like that but still loved them" this did help a bit and I stepped off nagging and getting frustrated. Sometimes you can't change them but have to work out strategies to help.

Sounds like executive dysfunction which could be related to neurodiversity. Would be a good idea to speak to school and your GP.

This does sound like a SEN issue. How many things are on the list if 7 are undone? I'd break it down to "evening before" tasks, and make sure bag, pe bag, coat etc are actually in the car before bed. Morning tasks:

1. Teeth
2. Wash
3. Get dressed
4. Breakfast
5. Pick up lunch box
6. Shoes on, leave house.

If he loses his space on the list, have a now / next / then board. You could one for upstairs for the top 3, one downstairs for the last 3.

If you suspect he is, in fact, taking the piss, which doesn't sound the case, just set off and leave him to walk/get several busses and face the inconvenience himself.

Also, usual stuff around decent bedtimes, no phone in bedroom etc in case he is texting all night and too tired to function mornings.

It is funny how you talk about detentions. My DS not only didn’t care about them he actually learnt to like them 🤣 He used to say it gives him time to think about things he is interested in without distraction.
punishments don’t work with ADHD kids. I remember when he was in boarding school they would make him go for swim early morning for every day he was late to lessons. He actually would swim with pleasure and then would be even more late for his lessons.
The positive side is when they put their mind to something they somehow manage to deliver. After 1,5 painful A levels years my DS suddenly decided that school can’t give him much anyway and stopped attending. Instead he studied himself. School was threatening to expel him but we were already in March and I managed to persuade them to let him be (we still paid for school!). He studied non-stop for 3 months and managed to get into top university (while we were expecting him to fail A levels)
your DS might surprise you - the key if for any teacher or subject to catch his attention and then he will deliver beyond your expectations!

Hyper focus is extremely consistent with ADHD!

OK I only read the first three pages, but you've described my DC who has ADD.

You obviously need a different approach.

I would try something a little "out there" but which worked for mine. We practiced the entire morning routine, from the sounding of the alarm to getting out the door, on the weekend at weird hours.

It entails getting your son into his pjs and into bed at, say, 4pm on a Saturday. Set the alarm for 4.05. Alarm goes off - son rises immediately - strangely enough, it's best if he doesn't engage his brain. Then he proceeds robot-like to breakfast - which he can mime if he is not hungry - teeth, getting dressed etc.

Make it fun. If he does it successfully a few times it might just be what clinches it for him. You're aiming for a state where the alarm kicks starts a sequence of tasks that are entered into automatically, without the DC wondering whether he'll particularly enjoy those tasks. It worked with our DC.

I know it seems a bit weird and will involve you devoting a Saturday afternoon, but anything's got to be better than this vicious cycle you've got into.

and I also confirm that hyper focus is consistent with ADHD and even with ADD

@SisterMichaelsHabit so sorry. 💐. Horrendous having undiagnosed ADHD. It’s hell sometimes.

This has all the hallmarks of ADHD. get him assessed as he will need help to organise himself at secondary and come GCSE time he will qualify for additional time in his exams.

the only thing you can do is organise yourself so you are up and dressed and ready to supervise in the morning.
speak to your boss about flexible working if your other kid has diagnosed SEN.

is there another parent to help?

get an Alexa to take over the reminding on a set schedule. Put up a visual timetable and it has an arrow so it can be moved along to next task. Bag packed the night before and ready by the door.

I can only imagine how stressful this is but you are the adult that needs to make the changes as this is not going to improve

Hi ! Will firstly confess I have only read posts by OP.
You have just described my teenage years down to a T including the anxiety aspect.
I have ADHD and cannot organise myself still. I am 34 and still forget things like my lunch or my ID lanyard or the keys to the building etc... its hard to describe but it's like all those thoughts of what I need to do are jumbled and muddled in my head and get worse with time pressure and I simply don't know where to start and by the time I've started its too late. And it was even worse in my teens ! I did get detentions then my behaviour got even worse because I was so stressed because I couldn't organise or do things right ever. I wasn't supported just constantly yelled at and felt like a failure,which led to depression, anxiety and self harm.
I can look back now and see how I could have helped my younger self and there are tonnes of things that can assist with ADHD and executive dysfunction. I wish you all the luck. Xx

I would bet my money on adhd. He sounds like me. I can remember things from 40years ago and one of my friends comments on how good my memory is. , I hyperfocus and fixate when I find a topic I love and I forget minor things, it’s like the cj stand ‘why did I come into this room…’ I work great to deadlines but have no attention span I general. I can’t remember where I left things, I forget to pick up my keys and have run back doubtless times to check the front door. I have left my lunch sitting in the house many times as forget to defrost dinner. I set a timer and then have to check two minutes later thst done it. I ended around in a fog a lot. I can open my phone to look up something and instantly forget what it was. It’s not a fault but just how his brain works.

Now strategies, timetable and PE kit done the night before and even put the PE bag into the car. Laminate a copy of his timetable and sellotape it to the inside of his school bag, tie his keys on a long piece of string inside his bag, lists, diaries etc…,

Oh I feel for you so much! This must be so frustrating.

The first thing I’d do, like everyone else says, I’d speak to a child development psychologist or another specialist to have his short term memory checked. If there’s nothing of note there then next:

I’d get up an hour earlier, and stand over him while he did every single task, until he was in the car ready to go with everything he needs and he can sit there until you and your other child are ready to leave for school on time.

After a year or so of this I’d speak to him about starting to transition to doing a few things on his own, and over the course of about another year slowly have him do one thing himself then another then another. Finally he can do it all himself and at that stage you can let him know you leave at a certain time, if he’s ready for it he can have a lift, if he’s not he can walk or get the bus. If he forgets something, his problem.

It sounds like he has some form of early dementia or a brain injury - that level of forgetfulness set out in your original post is not normal

I put YANBU because that would genuinely frustrate and upset me too.
However, everything you've put basically describes my other half and I am fairly certain he has undiagnosed ADHD. He has pretty much zero ability to be organised or remember really basic routines in his day. I often tell him to be ready for things at a time at least half an hour before we need to go as he will always make us late. He can only just manage to get himself organised in the morning (nevermind our son) but will often forget to do his teeth or something important. He loses everything! So much so he has air tags on his most important possessions. He is distracted a lot. And he hyper focuses on certain things - eg computer games can go on for hours before he notices. He'll even forget to eat if he's hyper focused on something.
Basically, get him referred and tested, better now than never. And with that the school and CAMHS will be able to help you with strategies and support.

This sounds like my daughter, she has ADD - inattentive type and dyslexia. She also experiences fear of detention/being told off. This could be rejection sensitivity which is a feature of ADHD/ADD. You need to support him more. Even if he doesn’t have SEN he needs help to cope with all the demands.