To think it is actually mostly men?

[Nolpp]

Maybe I didn’t get the memo in the past but in the last year or so I’ve been so bitterly disappointed by make behaviour. I look back and wonder if it was always this way but I’m only just noticing. I think part of it is I recently became a single parent and so I’ve had more dealings with men than I would usually, as I’ve had to speak to insurance companies, take car for MOT etc. Obviously I did some of these things before and I know women also work in these places but overall I am having more interaction with men.

Examples…

Driving. Whenever a car is right up behind me it is ALWAYS a man driving. I drive at the speed limit, not under, so presumably they think speed limits don’t apply to them.

I recently donated to a sponsorship for cancer research, an old school friend, quite literally not spoken in over two decades. He then messaged me to thank me for the donation and followed it up with a question about sex and positions he can do after his surgery. Why would anyone think that’s ok?

A colleague, well respected in his industry, tells me when drunk on a night out that he wishes all women conformed to the way of the 50s and stayed at home. He wasn’t joking.

In Sainsbury’s a week ago, a man grabbed my arse in a queue, I was shocked and stepped to one side, didn’t know what to do and said get the fuck away from me. I was next up for the till and the man behind the till said he does it to everyone !!! What the actual fuck? He did follow up to say they had tried to ban him from the shop. I cried in the car afterwards, it was awful.

Waiting for the baby changing unit in Mc Donnalds. A man eventually emerges, mutters sorry but he couldn’t wait, and looked sheepish. He wasn’t unwell, he was downing a Mc flurry when I came out.

Around 7 years ago I used to date someone who had recently got a job as a Judge in the family courts. He was very young to have got this job and in part it was to do with his father being a judge in the same court. Anyway one day we were talking about how money is worked out in a divorce and he said ‘it’s disgusting, women expect to be paid out after staying at home doing nothing with kids for fifteen years, so rather than getting a job of their own they steal the x husband’s pension.’ I am ashamed to say I laughed and agreed with him. I had a good job with no interest in giving it up so I felt I was compatible with this man who I now see was a bit of a monster.

I honestly feel like men make up the bulk of shit behaviour. It probably sounds dramatic but I actually feel sad about it, genuinely sad. And embarrassed that it’s taken me until this late in life to see it.

Yes, I know it’s not all men.

Rant over.

Fear is not hatred
Nobody has said they hate men. No feminists are encouraging women to go out and murder/rape men. Quite the opposite to some incel terrorists.

When I say make "inspiring hate" a crime, I don't mean targeting men who don't like women. I mean banning the absolutely disgusting content about enforced monogamy as an option; how to manipulate women to get sex; the Elliott Rodger manifesto (as some examples).
Banning porn that shows women being degraded, tortured, raped and beaten.

Women do none of these things so we are not "inspiring hate".

Stephen Corrigan

Was his friends and family interviewed?

I find it hard to believe someone who did what he did got through all of his life without showing himself to be strange.

Oh, also banning PUA workshops.

We seem to manage to pursue this strategy for other types of terrorism, just not when it's terrorism inspired by hatred of women

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/20/plymouth-shooting-eight-minutes-of-savagery-inquest-jake-davison

I can’t see why it is patronising for her to ask you to do what you asked her.

@Minglingpringle I don't think there's much 'blanket hatred' of men as individual human beings. Very few women on here say they hate every man they've ever met. Most negativity is around behaviour that is almost exclusively seen in men, or directed to men as the 'class' that controls our world and frequently acts to our detriment, oppressing and harming us.
Women who have never encountered a man they didn't hate, well I can only imagine what their experiences must have been, and I don't think its too big an ask to afford some leeway for them to vent and share without feeling the need to chastise them for generalising.
When I object to NAMALT, not my Nigelling and other defence of men on these threads, it's not because I think every man IS like that or that someone's Nigel can't be nice, it's not because I don't know, and need it hammering home, it's because its irrelevant and unnecessary to the conversation about bad men.
As I said before, men don't need our protection. Women do. And for me that can include allowing a safe space to off load using any words they like.
Its not down to women to convince each other that men are decent. It's up to men to show us.

I meant the end bit but we've spoke since.

Women trying to work in "male" professions. This is horrifying

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66982160

Generalising is more dangerous than you think. If unchecked it can lead to actual incitement of hatred.

And I would feel sorry for a young boy, who’s never hurt anyone and has no plans to and just wants to know how to get on with people in this world, who came across one of your “generalised” discussions. You might find a few years down the line that you’ve created a misogynist. (Because ok, in theory not all women are bad, but some of them seem to really hate men.)

Just because you feel oppressed by the group doesn’t mean that every member of the group is invincible and doesn’t need any help.

Wow talk about scraping the barrel. He's a father of two kids, his dad covered for him at the trial, he obviously has people in his life who think he's worth the candle (or did). And a lot of people 'show themselves to be strange', that doesn't mean they'd do something like this. And a lot of people who come across as 'normal' turn out to have done the most horrific things.

I was asking a question stop being so horrible.

Thank you for listening to what I said. I respect you for your openess to consider it.
I'm glad for you that you've now found happiness with a man who treats you as you deserve.

Thank you.

And I would feel sorry for a young boy, who’s never hurt anyone and has no plans to and just wants to know how to get on with people in this world, who came across one of your “generalised” discussions. You might find a few years down the line that you’ve created a misogynist.

Yup, the thing that makes men hate women is that we're afraid of them raping and killing us. It is, fundamentally, women's fault and women's problem once again.

So to get this straight: to get men to stop hating us, raping us, and killing us, we have to pretend not to notice how much they hate us, rape us and kill us, and suppress our very natural instinct to avoid them on that basis, because us doing that will hurt their feelings, causing them to hate us (and consequently for a number of them to feel justified in raping us and killing us)?

Whereas if we just don't mention it, don't act on it, continue to give men the benefit of the doubt to the detriment of our own safety, help them learn to respect us, help them feel like valuable, safe and productive members of a new society where their traditional strengths no longer hold sway, if we just do whatever it takes to keep them on side - eventually they will stop hating us, raping us and killing us? If we're nice enough?

Please tell me just how many dead women you think is reasonable collateral damage in pursuit of this aim?

@herewegoroundthebastardbush you aren't coming across as great either. Talk about twisting people's words.

I'm not the one who has more important things to worry about than a multiply abused, raped and murdered child. Horrible is as horrible does mate.

You know what? I can live with your disapproval. It isn't after all, like you're going to kill me.

You have misunderstood my point.

Mention it as much as you like. Be wary as much as you like. But stick to specifics and be factual.

if you accidentally created a misogynist by generalising, it would not be your fault if he overreacted and became violent.
But wouldn’t you prefer to stop that happening in the first place, if there was anything at all you could do about it?

Twist my words and other posters all you want.

You were the one using that horrific crime to win an argument.

It is my hope that young boys will “get it” and will be strong enough not to make the argument about them but strive to be allies to the women and girls in their lives.

i was 'using' it to illustrate the point that it perfectly exemplifies - it's not 'a tiny minority' of men who hate and abuse women. It's not some niche subset of uniquely 'evil' men who aren't husbands, fathers, brothers etc. They walk among us. And if one girl of only 16 can meet so many in her short life and horrible death, it isn't just 'a few'. It's enough to represent a clear and present danger.

I would prefer that yes. But what women do or don't do doesn't seem to have had any impact on the epidemic of male violence to date. Women had no voice and no power for centuries, and men raped and killed them in enormous numbers. So it cannot be reasonably deduced that women talking to other women about men, in generalisations or otherwise, 'makes' misogynists. Misogyny has been around since long before women had a right or opportunity to form or express opinions on the matter, much less take any action to protect themselves. It seems very much to me like what you are doing is making men's behaviour women's fault, and managing it women's responsibility, which is a very old tune indeed.

Also if misogynists dealt with their feelings about women the way the so called 'misandrists' on this thread propose - by withdrawing themselves from women as much as possible, and maybe bitching on the internet a bit - it would be no harm, no foul. But as we all know, this is not how misogyny tends to express itself.

I disagree. The case is an important one. What are the odds of such a thing happening?

you can’t blame @herewegoroundthebastardbush for this actually having happened. It is a fact.

i couldn’t believe it when I read a few months ago about a woman being assaulted on the underground. She asked for help and was assaulted by the guy she asked to help her.

Yes, it is a very important and I'm actually really upset thinking about the poor girl again.

It's all very sad really.

i couldn’t believe it when I read a few months ago about a woman being assaulted on the underground. She asked for help and was assaulted by the guy she asked to help her.

God that's awful 😥