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Original poster

Rishi has absolutely lost it, hasn't he?

599 replies

noblegiraffe · 23/09/2023 19:04

What with his random shite this week about scrapping a non-existent meat tax and an imaginary 7 bins, actually scrapping his own home insulation workforce that was only set up a few months ago, scrapping any useful bits of HS2 and now scrapping A-levels (which is so far removed from what is actually possible in schools right now that it's not even funny), what the fuck is he on?

He's just flailing around madly scrapping everything in case someone, somewhere might vote Tory over it.

And he was supposed to be the sensible replacement to Liz Truss.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
Clavinova · 10/10/2023 13:36

DuncinToffee
The official pricing details for the Bibby Stockholm barge have been released

That's funny because I distinctly remember reading this article (you have Dutch citizenship);

The ferry in the Netherlands hosting refugees and migrants

The Dutch government refuses to say how much it costs, but it's understood to be millions of euros every day.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65137156

L1ttledrummergirl · 10/10/2023 13:37

user1497207191
Did you miss the bit about how he excluded 3 million self employed and freelancers from the covid support schemes?

I don't believe the figure is that high - I know at least one person nominally included in that figure who received funding via his shop premises (x4) instead - he was very happy with the business support he received. Several others I know are mums who had recently started small businesses from home - they couldn't claim, however they both have husbands with well-paying jobs and they spent far less on holidays, commuting and going out than they would normally have done so they saved money as a family overall. Also, I wonder how many short-stay EU citizens were registered as self-employed - who then went back to their home countries during COVID.

My fledgling business closed as I received no support. I don't have a rich husband to support me and we have only just caught up on bills that built up through this period.

I could have switched to ppe procurement, paid off my local MP and made millions for doing fuck all like Baroness Mone.

Shame I know the meaning of the word honesty.

jgw1 · 10/10/2023 13:38

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 13:36

DuncinToffee
The official pricing details for the Bibby Stockholm barge have been released

That's funny because I distinctly remember reading this article (you have Dutch citizenship);

The ferry in the Netherlands hosting refugees and migrants

The Dutch government refuses to say how much it costs, but it's understood to be millions of euros every day.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65137156

Is it a competition to see which country can be the least humane to poor desperate people?

Crikeyalmighty · 10/10/2023 13:41

@L1ttledrummergirl I think one of the big things is that most self employed people usually can offset large amounts of expenses and so the profit they declare for tax isn't often that high- and the amount of support you received was based on profit and not turnover because I guess none of us had telepathy to realise we would be in that situation and used tax to our best advantage- anyone who was recently self employed was also stuffed. I'm not sure how it worked at retail end for those that had premises etc.

DuncinToffee · 10/10/2023 13:49

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 13:36

DuncinToffee
The official pricing details for the Bibby Stockholm barge have been released

That's funny because I distinctly remember reading this article (you have Dutch citizenship);

The ferry in the Netherlands hosting refugees and migrants

The Dutch government refuses to say how much it costs, but it's understood to be millions of euros every day.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65137156

And? Just because I am Dutch doesn't mean I don't criticise the Dutch government.

And it is acknowledged in that article that it is an expensive solution.

Do you have a problem with me being Dutch?

verdantverdure · 10/10/2023 13:50

When sea level rises turn the population of Norfolk into climate refugees it's really going to confuse the "we should look after our own" types, isn't it?

user1497207191 · 10/10/2023 13:53

Crikeyalmighty · 10/10/2023 13:41

@L1ttledrummergirl I think one of the big things is that most self employed people usually can offset large amounts of expenses and so the profit they declare for tax isn't often that high- and the amount of support you received was based on profit and not turnover because I guess none of us had telepathy to realise we would be in that situation and used tax to our best advantage- anyone who was recently self employed was also stuffed. I'm not sure how it worked at retail end for those that had premises etc.

They're usually the kinds of expenses that an employee wouldn't incur or would get reimbursed by their employer, i.e. travel to/from clients, equipment, training etc. It's not the golden ticket that some people seem to think it is. The rules as to what is allowable and what isn't is actually pretty similar to employed people, i.e. expenses an employee incurs required to be paid by their employment contract is a tax deductible expense or repaid by the employer. Of course there are differences, but not as great as people thing. After all a self employed person doesn't have an "employer" to claim costs back against, do they? HMRC would soon tackle a self employed person who they discovered had been claiming things they weren't allowed to!

Of course, there's always "pub talk" about people claiming to put their foreign holiday or their wife's new car "through the books", but that's either bravado nonsense or they're breaking the law!

The fact it was based on profit was actually pretty disastrous for lots, as they still had costs to pay, i.e. premises, subscriptions, equipment leasing contracts, security, professional fees, waste contracts, bank charges, etc., but even the lucky ones who got support didn't get any support towards those costs, as support was based on profit, not costs nor turnover, so that aspect was flawed too!

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 13:55

jgw1
Speaking of morale boosts, any word on why it was necessary for a 56 year old man to have a birthday party, whilst he denied that opportunity to millions of children?

I've answered that question before - one of my young nieces has her birthday the same week as Boris Johnson - she had a birthday party in her back garden with five friends, which was allowed at the time. Cake, balloons, games - it looked much more fun than Boris Johnson's 'party' - she wouldn't have wanted to swap.

Do you know yet why Keir Starmer lied about how many people were sharing a curry and beer with him in Durham? Starmer originally said 'about 6' people were with him - but there were 17 people there in total. Starmer was caught out lying when the curry delivery guy reported delivering considerably more curry meals than needed for 6 or 7 people.

DuncinToffee · 10/10/2023 13:57

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 13:55

jgw1
Speaking of morale boosts, any word on why it was necessary for a 56 year old man to have a birthday party, whilst he denied that opportunity to millions of children?

I've answered that question before - one of my young nieces has her birthday the same week as Boris Johnson - she had a birthday party in her back garden with five friends, which was allowed at the time. Cake, balloons, games - it looked much more fun than Boris Johnson's 'party' - she wouldn't have wanted to swap.

Do you know yet why Keir Starmer lied about how many people were sharing a curry and beer with him in Durham? Starmer originally said 'about 6' people were with him - but there were 17 people there in total. Starmer was caught out lying when the curry delivery guy reported delivering considerably more curry meals than needed for 6 or 7 people.

Johnson lied to parliament, Starmer didn't break any laws

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 14:11

DuncinToffee
Do you have a problem with me being Dutch?

Not specifically - but the Dutch contingent on Mumsnet are more vocal on politics threads than other nationalities - therefore you have to accept some comparisons with your home nation in return.

DuncinToffee · 10/10/2023 14:26

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 14:11

DuncinToffee
Do you have a problem with me being Dutch?

Not specifically - but the Dutch contingent on Mumsnet are more vocal on politics threads than other nationalities - therefore you have to accept some comparisons with your home nation in return.

Not specifically, ah ok, a bit like with your Fraudian slip comment then.

Grin at the Dutch contingent

bombastix · 10/10/2023 14:28

Sorry, is it now a condition of posting that I need to know the nationality of those concerned? Or if they are a dual national? Or if they have only been here a short time?

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 14:54

bombastix
Sorry, is it now a condition of posting that I need to know the nationality of those concerned?

I think it's quite relevant to some discussions, yes - not least if the poster isn't eligible to vote in UK general elections. Keir Starmer keeps referring to "The British People" in his speech - I'm listening now.

The Bibby Stockholm had previously been used by the Dutch government to house asylum seekers and my link was regarding a passenger ferry being used by the Dutch government - relevant to DuncinToffee's post.

bombastix · 10/10/2023 15:00

Okay, then I think you should kead by example and give us your background then

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 15:05

bombastix
Okay, then I think you should lead by example and give us your background then

Certainly - I'm British, born in the UK and live in South East England. Two of my grandparents were born in France.

bombastix · 10/10/2023 15:22

Does this information now mean that I can bring in examples from France?

Obviously I am not being serious with you. But the reason this rankles with me is that up thread, I was told by a Tory supporter than my views did not count because I don't live here.

Actually I do live in the U.K. and I am British. But do you see that this reductive approach about who is allowed a say is particularly Tory?

jgw1 · 10/10/2023 17:17

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 15:05

bombastix
Okay, then I think you should lead by example and give us your background then

Certainly - I'm British, born in the UK and live in South East England. Two of my grandparents were born in France.

Oh heck, I hope they didn't migrate.

jgw1 · 10/10/2023 17:20

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 13:55

jgw1
Speaking of morale boosts, any word on why it was necessary for a 56 year old man to have a birthday party, whilst he denied that opportunity to millions of children?

I've answered that question before - one of my young nieces has her birthday the same week as Boris Johnson - she had a birthday party in her back garden with five friends, which was allowed at the time. Cake, balloons, games - it looked much more fun than Boris Johnson's 'party' - she wouldn't have wanted to swap.

Do you know yet why Keir Starmer lied about how many people were sharing a curry and beer with him in Durham? Starmer originally said 'about 6' people were with him - but there were 17 people there in total. Starmer was caught out lying when the curry delivery guy reported delivering considerably more curry meals than needed for 6 or 7 people.

I think you may be confused.

I didn't ask what Sir Keir didn't do.
I didn't ask what your niece did.

I asked about why it was necessary for a 56year old man to have a birthday party, indoors, illegal, that he had banned millions of children from having?

Passepartoute · 10/10/2023 17:30

Did you miss the bit about how he excluded 3 million self employed and freelancers from the covid support schemes?

I don't believe the figure is that high - I know at least one person nominally included in that figure who received funding via his shop premises (x4) instead - he was very happy with the business support he received.

Oh, well, if @Clavinova knows one person who was happy, that means the rest of the 3 million just didn't exist.

SerendipityJane · 10/10/2023 17:39

"I don't believe" is right alongside "I don't recognise" as a way of ignoring facts. Notice how it's not accusing the speaker of lying. However it also makes it impossible to continue any discussion.

If I were interviewing someone, and had "I don't recognise that <whatever>" after I had just produced the facts, I 'd end it there. But then most interviews these days aren't. They're just soapboxes.

Or "So, Prime Minister, what would you like to talk about ?" - as the first TV interview of Eden went.

Crikeyalmighty · 10/10/2023 17:46

@jgw the difference with Starmer was very different in Durham- he was travelling on party business with a large party - who given they are miles from home and in hotels need feeding and without cooking facilities - maybe the hotels could have fed but an awful lot had quite limited facilities at that time -we do band tours so I'm well aware of the score of dealing with large groups away from home . In Johnson's case this was on the doorstep with people who had local homes to go to - so had no need to be fed and watered 'on the doorstep' and on a regularish basis it seems.

DuncinToffee · 10/10/2023 17:58

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 14:54

bombastix
Sorry, is it now a condition of posting that I need to know the nationality of those concerned?

I think it's quite relevant to some discussions, yes - not least if the poster isn't eligible to vote in UK general elections. Keir Starmer keeps referring to "The British People" in his speech - I'm listening now.

The Bibby Stockholm had previously been used by the Dutch government to house asylum seekers and my link was regarding a passenger ferry being used by the Dutch government - relevant to DuncinToffee's post.

Funny how your are holding me accountable for the actions of the Dutch government but Sunak isn't in charge of his.

I get it, I am foreign, how dare I comment, I have heard it before and will again.
Feel free to ignore me.

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 19:38

DuncinToffee
Funny how your are holding me accountable for the actions of the Dutch government

I wasn't holding you accountable for the actions of the Dutch government at all - I was making an observation relevant to your post.

jgw1
I asked about why it was necessary for a 56year old man to have a birthday party, indoors, illegal, that he had banned millions of children from having?

No you didn't - you've added some extra words to your question.

bombastix
Actually I do live in the U.K. and I am British. But do you see that this reductive approach about who is allowed a say is particularly Tory?

My comments were not reductive or particularly Tory - it's a fact that DuncinToffee doesn't have a vote in UK general elections. The same would be true if I lived in the Netherlands - I wouldn't be allowed to vote in general elections over there.

DuncinToffee · 10/10/2023 19:49

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 19:38

DuncinToffee
Funny how your are holding me accountable for the actions of the Dutch government

I wasn't holding you accountable for the actions of the Dutch government at all - I was making an observation relevant to your post.

jgw1
I asked about why it was necessary for a 56year old man to have a birthday party, indoors, illegal, that he had banned millions of children from having?

No you didn't - you've added some extra words to your question.

bombastix
Actually I do live in the U.K. and I am British. But do you see that this reductive approach about who is allowed a say is particularly Tory?

My comments were not reductive or particularly Tory - it's a fact that DuncinToffee doesn't have a vote in UK general elections. The same would be true if I lived in the Netherlands - I wouldn't be allowed to vote in general elections over there.

In what way is the Dutch government relevant to the Conservative government under Sunak redacting documents regarding the costs of the Bibbi Stockholm?

Clavinova · 10/10/2023 19:57

Crikeyalmighty · 10/10/2023 17:46

@jgw the difference with Starmer was very different in Durham- he was travelling on party business with a large party - who given they are miles from home and in hotels need feeding and without cooking facilities - maybe the hotels could have fed but an awful lot had quite limited facilities at that time -we do band tours so I'm well aware of the score of dealing with large groups away from home . In Johnson's case this was on the doorstep with people who had local homes to go to - so had no need to be fed and watered 'on the doorstep' and on a regularish basis it seems.

Keir Starmer was travelling around the country with a small party of 'about 6' people - a larger group having curry with them were local to Durham (17 people in total). Starmer's hotel was serving food on the terrace until 9pm - he lied when he said his hotel wasn't serving food that evening. Restaurants and pubs were open with outdoor service (tables for up to 6 people) - Starmer lied when he said all the restaurants and pubs were shut. Starmer ate outside the evening before Durham, in Hull (with Hull's Labour MP) - the Durham MP was obviously more relaxed about the rules/guidance.