Russel has spoken

[Whyismyfacealwaysdry]

On Instagram, has anyone seen? What are your thoughts?

I'd forgotten what Manson looked like and Googled having read this thread, this is just one of many many similar images. It's almost like he was emulating his look.

Yep. (I was the one who made the comment about it upthread). And all the hand gestures etc - it’s very preachy. He definitely fancies himself as a Manson type cult leader. Horrible little man.

I am sorry for what happened in your case.

I have tried to explain my view which is based on the principle of innocent until proved guilty - I think we could not have a system that presumes guilt first.

People are entitled to their views that what debate is

You can’t debate from a side of ignorance. If you don’t know what you’re talking about - to be clear.

But the comedy events were sell out, for years. If you look at the audiences they are a pretty balanced collection of male and females laughing away.

Being misogynistic in comedy is not unusual, and being such is not a crime. There are equally female comedian's who centre their comedy on mysandry.

It really doesn't prove someone is a rapist.

The matter should also be put before a jury. The fact it never would have stood a chance of getting before a court without a prior, extensive piece of investigative journalism is where the injustice lies, not in the false premise that this will not end up in court.

Russell Brand’s behaviour was an open secret, not a surprise revelation to everyone. In fact, not all of it was even an open secret, some of it was very public behaviour that was not taken seriously when it should have been. He was encouraged and promoted by the mainstream media because he said and did inappropriate and manipulative things, not despite the fact he did.

A different view is not ignorance

The popularity of his comedy at the time fascinates me. I was 19/20 at the height of his stand up fame, so prime target audience. It was set in a time where the Spice Girls had just done the whole “girl power” thing, we had huge billboards for Wonderbras with “Hello Boys” plastered over them, seemingly woman in charge of her sexuality and holding a power over men. It was all that sort of culture. I remember feeling very much that women were in control, using their sexuality as power, (although arguably now that’s seen as anti feminist) etc etc. As a young woman of that time I don’t remember feeling as scared of men as we seem to be now - of course men weren’t any less of a threat, I’m just saying that’s how the media portrayed it. So suddenly we had this weird, intoxicating to many, strange little metro sexual man standing there almost like some weird hyper sexual fairy, making joes about sex. And it didn’t feel threatening - at the time- because the whole context and culture was set up for women to feel empowered by embracing their sexuality, and being okay with promiscuity. I don’t feel that way in many ways at all now as a nearly 43 year old woman, but it’s really important not to take things in isolation. You can’t look at his stand up in the context of todays culture and judge it based on that. That’s how he got away with it all.

You are right. However your post is coming from a point of huge ignorance and lack of understanding. You want innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately, the women won’t get that. That’s ok with you though.

There is no discussion to be had with you.

My view is based on a principle - I respect your opinion, as I said my concern is that if we discard an innocent until proven guilty approach this would be seismic change in UK culture. Already we see those in engaged in some professions assumed guilty as soon as any allegation appear - the teaching profession seems to be most impacted by this. This quite simply should not be the case, lives, families and careers ruined - in the area I live I have seen that happen at my child's school.

Everyone's opinion is based upon what they have experienced and viewed.

I don't know why you are focusing on my posts. I made a comment about how worrying it was so many people were supporting him despite his previous comments. Nothing too deep in it. No point going over and over it. Let's just leave it now please.

I don’t respect your opinion as it’s coming from a place of ignorance; these women would never have got justice and would be treated as criminals by the system. This is the only way.

You can stop @ me now - I have no more to say to you.

Women who have never been in this situation need to be quiet and stop defending the men who have these ‘open secrets.’

No the matter should be put in front of a jury. The media is not the place to present information with the purpose of mob “justice”.

Yes it was the same media (channel 4 I’m especially looking at you) who encouraged the misogyny rife in comedy 20 years ago.

I would agree on the points re comedy - I feel that the some of the so called "comedians" are not funny and were aggressive. Personally I prefer non sexual humour and think the fact that in general people supported and such humour was not good for the way that women have/continue to be treated.

Your view is based on the belief that a significant number of women have lied and have told very detailed, explicit stories that all chime with each other, and that a large number of respected, experienced journalists have agreed to go along with those lies.

Your view relies on a very wide-ranging and long-term conspiracy going back two decades and involving a huge number of people risking their reputations and careers, for some reason.

This is not a 'he said/she said' situation. This is a 'he said/she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and she and he and he and he and she and she and she and he said' situation.

The man is a complete tool. I watched this out of curiosity.

FFS will somebody please buy the man a shawl or some buttons.

Fruitloop.

@Maatandosiris - your “No” makes no sense whatsoever, as the post you quote does not anywhere say the matter should not be put in front of a jury, so you clearly have nothing to disagree with. Both your post and the one quoted state explicitly that there should be a court case. If you do genuinely believe this matter should be put in front of a jury, then quite honestly, you should be happy that journalists have collected enough evidence to enable this to happen. It should not have taken this to give women the confidence that they might be believed, but clearly it did.

Because when it comes to rape. Then the opposite view to me is the woman maybe lying. And I’m not going to interact with anyone whose go to position is that. So no, I don’t wish to interact with the likes of you. You can have your opinion, you’re entitled to it, but I don’t need to respect it or engage with it.

It seems to me that for some people here in order for someone to be worthy of sympathy for potential/probable wrongful treatment it's a requirement that they have a penis. I don't see any concerns or interest from them when they're told about all the bad treatment women receive at the hands of the press and criminal justice system.

None of it should even be a surprise, all of that is also "hidden in plain sight". You don't need to have gone through it or know someone who has, it's been talked about a lot. If you don't know, you haven't been listening

Cases in which full investigation and prosecution has only come after media exposure that spring to mind: Harvey Weinstein; Jeffrey Epstein; Robert Hughes.

I am fine with the new route to justice for rape and SA victims. It may be Russell Brand never makes it to court, but women and girls at large know what he is now and that is a good thing in future crime prevention. His hypocrisy as a recovery guru and general spiritual wanker has also now been exposed.

Anyone who wants to wring their hands and feel sorry for him over the results of this 3-4 year investigation and report is naive, gullible, or a misogynist, in my view.

This article pre-dates RB and centres around MeToo in the USA however I find what it has to say about change and high profile cases like this feels equally relevant

https://www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/culture/a40652945/how-to-create-a-culture-shift-tarana-burke/

The article as a whole is interesting but this paragraph stands out for me

"I don’t draw momentum from events like Harvey Weinstein going to jail. These mainstream media cases are not what the movement is about, and it’s not what the movement is built on. Imagine if we looked at those moments as a meaningful shift. What does it mean, then, when Bill Cosby comes home? When we get caught up in the big names and the guilt or innocence of celebrities who will go on with their lives one way or another, when we tie our healing and our progress to them. It’s not sustainable, and our movements become less and less so."

You'll have to read the article for the authors answer to the questions posed in the quote

I support him. And I'm none of those things thanks. 👍

Well, not really. Man was a sex addict who openly admitted at the time to sleeping with hundreds of women. Yet a four-year Dispatches investigation found a grand total of... 4. So would love to know where you've got all those 'shes' from.

There are now 8 women who have come forward. And potentially more. The least you can do is keep up if you wish to engage. And isn’t 4 enough? Because one woman saying she was raped/abused/assaulted is one too many for me.

Will you still support him if convicted?