AIBU we should be forcing children to change in front of everyone

[Justoverit25]

I know there will be people who think otherwise but it’s something that’s causing many issues recently at DDs school.
at a parent/ school meeting it was made clear that all girls and boys in year 5 and 6 will get changed for PE in one classroom and there will be no exceptions. In the same meeting they were explaining about PHSE and how important it is now because some of the children have started reaching puberty. ( they are year 5 )
my daughter is one of those where she is developing in areas which is fairly obvious.
she also has the addition of having tubes in those areas.
daughter came home and said that another girl in her class was very upset because she didn’t want to change for PE in front of the boys. This particular girl is a bit bigger than most of the class and her mum hasn’t been able to get her to attend school since.
I know we are preparing them for adult life but I honestly can’t think of any time as an adult I have been forced to get dressed in front of the opposite sex. What age do we start to deem this as unsuitable ?

What kind of fucked up message does this give to kids about bodily autonomy and consent?

Yes we know you don't want to but you have to anyway....

It's a hill I would be prepared to die on.

My dd who is now 16 had this in her primary. I refused to let her change with the boys as she felt uncomfortable-the solution was she had to get changed in the toilets and the rest of the class still changed together!

by the time my ds was in upper juniors we had covid so they went to school in PE kits, and they’ve never reverted back to changing at school, I can’t think why they would, going in your uniform works so much better imo in primary school.

PANTS

At my kids' primary, in Y5 and Y6, they get changed in separate areas, e.g. girls in the classroom and boys in the cloakroom.

Email the governors as well as the headteacher. My kids’ schools would never admit they were wrong about anything. The governors might be more reasonable.

My eldest is 17 and when she was in Y5 the boys and girls changed separately. Boys, in the classroom and girls in the toilets.
I was glad as DD had her period in Y5 and her body was already developing. I would not be at all happy with them changing together at that age
If you go end mass saying no surely the school will back down. I'm guessing it's because they don't have the staff to supervise kids changing but surely there are extra staff (SLT, office staff, safeguarding team) who could step in for 5 minutes.

At the school I used to work in we split them from year 3

Girls in the cloakroom, boys in the class and they waited till they were told to come back in.

Years 5 & 6 had separate cloakrooms

It is inappropriate for year 5 and 6 to change in front of the opposite gender if they are not happy about doing so. I wouldnt be ok with it and would send her in her pe kit.

We didn't directly supervise in the cloakrooms

They got changed and came back in the classrooms.

Only went in if taking too long or being noisy, which was rare

This was a massive issue for our DC at primary. Both were very uncomfortable. DS used to wear his PE kit under his normal uniform and just change his shoes. He was still v unhappy with how uncomfortable some of the girls were with the arrangement. In DDs year there were only 4 girls. School refused to let them change in the toilets, so we kept the girls off on PE days until the governors changed the rules. Harder to organise in a year with more girls though!

Yet the girls are upset about it. So are we listening to girls and ignoring them when they say they are uncomfortable, or do we listen and prevent any more being uncomfortable?

We teach them P.A.N.T.S and consent, and a whole host of other stuff, then we just completely ignore them? Useful, teach one thing, but show them that other people come first in real life. And then we wonder why girls want to become boys, why there is a mental health crisis, and how consent never really matters.

Looking back, do you remember when we had to do PE in our pants and vests that would never be allowed now we’ve progressed we’ve moved on even if this is how it was in the past it shouldn’t be now

I thought this was against safeguarding advice? I’m sure I checked last year when my daughter started year 3 and some building work meant that for a couple of weeks they were going to have to change for forest school together … sure it said children should be separated by sex for changing and toilets from age 8?

DD1 is Y6. The teacher takes the boys to the computer room while the girls get changed and then they swap. It's not hard as long as there is a TA or similar to supervise the half that are getting changed?

At my children's primary schools, one sent the boys to change in the hall and the girls remained in the classroom to change (in the year 5/6 class). At the other school, children came to school in PE kit on PE days.

Yeah, it's mixed messages to teach them bodily autonomy and then force them to strip in front of each other.

From a personal point of view, could you request it as part of your daughter's adjustments for her medical needs?

I do think at that age we were expected to strip to knickers and pants in front of each other, but it was the 80s and alot happened then that wouldn't now

Ridiculous, I've worked as a teacher for 10 years and we have had many ways of changing in different schools but I would not expect children of that age to get changed in front of the opposite sex.

School 1 - I taught Year 5. School had a new hall with fancy changing rooms. The boys went into the boys changing rooms, the girls into the girls changing room while I stood in the hall. Any messing around that child or children were sent to the toilets to change by themselves.

School 2 - I taught Year 6. Older building so no dedicated changing rooms. I worked this a couple of ways. The first couple of years children went in small groups and got changed in toilets the preceding lesson. (Obviously at a time when children were working quietly).

Later on my partner teacher was a male and we both did PE between break and lunch on the same day so all the girls would come into my room and the boys would go into his room and we would stand at our respective doors in the corridor and chat with a foot in the door so it was still but the children felt comfortable.

Current school. I now teach Year 1 so different kettle of fish but in this school the children just come in in their PE clothes on their assigned PE days. Usually have PE in the afternoon (especially the older classes) so they can go home and change after after activity. By far the best system. Children are comfortable, no learning time is taken up with children getting changed or the inevitable drama.

I know it's a long message but my main point is there are many ways around this and children that age have so much going on in their heads the last thing they need to worry about is getting changed in front of their peers of the opposite sex

@SleepingStandingUp probably as she has a 1-1 and an EHCP. I don’t know though I think I want the school to know the real reasons in hope it changes for future classes to.

Hmm sorry, I’m wrong, looks like the guideline is 8 for single sex toilets, not changing.
I personally would not be happy about it at year 5-6 age. (Our school does indeed aim to separate them for changing from year 3 but pe kit is worn all day; it’s just forest school they change)

Even in the 1960s and 70s we changed separately from the boys by that age. I think it was about 8 years old.

You should always have exceptions for children to change separately regardless of age, to account for things such as operations scars.

This is an aspect of UK education I just don't get. I grew up in Ireland we wore PE clothes into school.

I was advised it was so children learnt how to change, and teachers could safe guard ? eh I have news lads generations here managed to figure it out without humiliating children.

I really can't imagine arguing with a child and equally telling them they have body autonomy and consent!

Years 5/6 always changed boys/girls separately when I was at school. Same for older DC. Youngest now goes in in PE kit on PE days, seems to be more and more common.

I've been doing supply teaching for about five years now and I've been in hundreds of schools in that time. I've never come across year fives and sixes getting changed with the opposite sex. Not once.

@Justoverit25 . in your "strongly worded email" you could-quote the pants rules.
Most screaming one is NO means NO.