I live in London and am 31 but yet I know very few people who would be trapped renting all their lives.

[lavender2023]

I am wondering if this is atypical? I am talking about people I know personally. Of course we know people who rent or live with parents. Those who live with parents (long term) tend to be in 2 categories:
(a) long term sick or serious mental health issues; often not working, probably would struggle to buy or even rent their own place with or without a housing crisis as their problems are bigger than that (its a shortage of sheltered housing rather than housing per se)
(b) from cultures where this is normal and even expected.

The people I know who rent tend to be recent immigrants (last 2-3 years; the immigrants I know who have been here long enough to obtain ILR all own, including me) or they are renting for lifestyle reasons (could easily afford to buy but choose not to; or like someone I know whose parents own an apartment that he can live in rent free (but he wants to live in central London). I know two people in social housing but I would argue they are reasonably secure. Many of my neighbours are renters but then again many of them appear to be immigrants from places like HK (and are probably pretty recent).

Almost everyone I know who bought in London has received help from parents including me and DH (who live in his mum's house rent free for 3 years). Most people we know have gotten actual cash though. I used to know far more colleagues in my age group who rented but now that I am 31, most seem to have bought and the younger ones are increasingly staying at home while working in London. Given that the latter is what Dh and I did as young graduates in London, I highly doubt they would be forced into private rental as DH and I managed to save £90k in 3 years when living at home which still counts for something even in London with the current mortgage rates.

Logically, my experience is not the reality. the home ownership rate for those under 40 is something like 50%. So there are a lot of people out there in private rental. Yet I feel like it is something I read about in the papers. Is this why there has been no political consensus on the housing crisis because middle income people are insulated from it (even in London where the housing crisis is most acute). I must imagine people in cheaper areas must be truly insulated from it because a friend of mine on (less than £30k) can afford to buy a modest flat in the midlands on his own.

DH does have family who are in long term rental (don't think its choice) but they live in a different country so probably not fair to compare.

I said that there is a housing crisis in my OP. My experiences don't match up with stats! I read about it in the papers, but i am disturbed at why i don't see it in IRL to a significant degree because it means a lot of people probably don't encounter it. And this may explain why nothing has been done.

North London is expensive. I live in South London, and terraced houses are often cheaper than flats.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make - you're clearly very privileged to have been able to live rent-free for so long. I've been paying private rent in London since I was 16 years old! I worked full time all through my GCSEs and A Levels and all through university. It simply isn't possible to save money while having to pay private rent off the kind of job that will hire a 16yr old without any GCSEs.

It's honestly very obnoxious to people who are actually from impoverished/underprivileged backgrounds to talk about your boyfriend's family being "poor" when your MIL owns a large house in London and two generations were being subsidised by a rich grandad.

i am disturbed at why i don't see it in IRL to a significant degree because it means a lot of people probably don't encounter it. And this may explain why nothing has been done.

Well you're absolutely right about that but it's because middle class people stick to their bubbles (where financial support from parents is the norm) and never encounter anyone outside that bubble. So they don't think it's a problem, since they don't ever meet anyone from outside that bubble of privilege.

@TheGhostofLoganRoy I'm sorry but you are plain and simply delusional. This is not MN boasting or showing off. It's the plain and simple truth.
There is nowhere In London to buy for £150,00! Unless you are looking at a studio and even then I doubt it.
Please tell me where In London you are finding property so cheap?
I have lived here all of my life and I own a flat so I know the property prices.

I can only conclude that you made the thread to brag about your situation because there’s no way someone is dense enough to not get the concept of the fact they’re in a middle class bubble. I take the tube every day, I don’t look at talk about ULEZ and think “huh, that’s weird, why are they worried about cars, everyone I see takes the tube”.

And yes it’s extremely insulting to play pretend at being poor on this thread.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/07/vanishing-middle-class-london-economy-divide-rich-poor-england#:~:text=Around%2036%25%20of%20London%20households,households%20to%20just%20one%2Dthird.

Around 36% of London households are now classified as poor (up from 20% in 1980), while 37% are middle income (down from 65%).

tbh majority of londoners who drive have ulez compliant cars (newer cars) which is why sadiq will win the mayoral election. Uxbridge was an outlier because it is a constituency with bits that are semi rural and its mixed- many of the people there are pensioners or on modest incomes.This is not an accident that it is this way, i think the same now applies to housing.

https://www.primelocation.com/for-sale/details/63312184/

https://www.primelocation.com/for-sale/details/64803509/

https://www.primelocation.com/for-sale/details/64549473/

https://www.primelocation.com/for-sale/details/65513765/

I'm early 40s so of an earlier generation, but most of DH's colleagues are on high salaries and have been able to buy, though some have had to buy outside the TfL zones (but they could have afforded to buy something more central if they'd chosen a flat rather than a house, and in the less fashionable areas).
I grew up in council housing. Most people I know from school or uni are in council housing (there is a lot of it in most London boroughs, though you have to know the system to get a high priority), or have bought houses or flats but out of my home borough (Islington).
So I don't think the OP's experience is that unusual tbh.

We still have modest incomes

You have said twice that your joint income is £120K. That's not modest compared to most people. What do you think - without looking it up - the average annual income in this country is?

To be fair to the OP - 3 bedrooms isn't a 'large' house. It's a normal family home. There are thousands of social housing estates across the UK filled with 3 bed homes - it's a normal size home for a family to live in.

Yes, the OP has benefitted from the privilege of living rent free with her MIL (who in turn benefitted from the privilege of having a parent wealthy enough to subsidise her), but we need to move away from this idea that 3 bed homes are humongous mansions, only to be aspired to by the very richest.

Buying into that narrative means we are accepting the idea that functional, comfortable housing is a luxury rather than a right. A modest 3 bed home should be achievable for any family of four, anywhere in the country, and it's shameful that it isn't.

Fair enough, I see that now. My apologies.
But she's saying that £400,00 is an 8 bedroom house In London??? She is delusional

Er, no she isn't?

The 8 bed home was a pp talking about Liverpool.

with the exception of the studio flat, you wouldn't be able to get a mortgage for the rest. so only available to people with cash.

thats really interesting!

I feel that the average household income needs contextualising. I know what it is, but that average includes pensioner households, who will either be mortgage free or having their rent paid through pension credit.

I don't know what the average working age household income is (i.e. the average income for people who are likely to be still paying mortgage/rent), but I think it would be higher, and I think that would be a more relevant comparator.

(Edited to add - I am sure the OP's household income would still be well above average btw! But I think the difference would be lower.)

@TheGhostofLoganRoy you said a massive house though?!

So your barometer of rich is owning a house in London? Does that include asset rich pensioners who can't afford heating?

Where are these London houses for 100k?

Christ posh people really do live in bubbles.

Who is posh?

To be fair to the OP - 3 bedrooms isn't a 'large' house. It's a normal family home. There are thousands of social housing estates across the UK filled with 3 bed homes - it's a normal size home for a family to live in.

But this is exactly the point - our definitions of "normal", "large", "expensive" etc. are entirely subjective and depending on our own individual circumstances. That' why it's so important to acknowledge that people mostly live in bubbles, and that our bubble doesn't represent everyone. I'm very aware that I live in a very working class bubble, but I'm not so sheltered as to assume that's the case for everyone. Yet people who live in more middle class bubbles do seem to assume that their bubble is universal.

I've never in my entire life lived anywhere larger than a studio flat. To me (and to many people from my background), a three-bedroom house is an insanely huge mansion. I'll never ever be able to afford a three-bedroom house if I live to be a hundred. To me that's almost unimaginable wealth and luxury.

Apart from my one friend who got famous, I don't know a single person who owns a three-bedroom house. I don't think I've ever even been inside a three-bedroom house. The idea that anyone would describe a three-bedroom house as "modest" is honestly mind blowing.

Obviously social housing is a different matter (and the size of council house you get depends on how many children you have).

I grew up on a council estate and I don't view 3 beds as a large home. My family (5 of us) lived in a 3 bed home, and it was big enough for our needs, but I don't think anyone could have claimed that it was anything but a normal sized home.

A home that is sufficient for your needs should be a right, and it's shameful that it isn't seen as such.

@TheGhostofLoganRoy you have linked to flats?

But there's five of you and it was council.

We're not talking about council properties because those are linked to number of people.

To privately purchase a three-bedroom house in London, I'm sorry, but many people would consider that a very large house that only a wealthy person could afford.

Inheritance is a one-time thing. If you’re earning £18k, unless you have exceptional earning potential and expect your salary to quadruple in the near term, you are going to have a worse quality of life day-to-day than someone who earns £60k.

How can you even afford bills and food on £18k in this climate?

So it really doesn’t matter if you received £100k towards your house once, your day-to-day existence is likely to be a struggle compared to someone earning £60k (even if they’re renting instead of paying a mortgage).

I'd argue that someone who claims they have never been inside a 3 bed home also lives in a bubble, albeit a different one. Have you never even been in a 3 bed maisonette? There were also estates full of those near where I grew up (in London).

3 bed houses are extremely common housing stock - lots and lots were built after the war, all over the country, both private housing and social.

So are you saying you've never been inside a 3 bed home at all, including council?

Or are you saying you've never been inside a privately owned 3 bed home?

Just out of curiosity OP, how do you think things would be for you now, if you hadn't met your DH and if you hadn't had the opportunity to live rent free for 3 years?