I live in London and am 31 but yet I know very few people who would be trapped renting all their lives.

[lavender2023]

I am wondering if this is atypical? I am talking about people I know personally. Of course we know people who rent or live with parents. Those who live with parents (long term) tend to be in 2 categories:
(a) long term sick or serious mental health issues; often not working, probably would struggle to buy or even rent their own place with or without a housing crisis as their problems are bigger than that (its a shortage of sheltered housing rather than housing per se)
(b) from cultures where this is normal and even expected.

The people I know who rent tend to be recent immigrants (last 2-3 years; the immigrants I know who have been here long enough to obtain ILR all own, including me) or they are renting for lifestyle reasons (could easily afford to buy but choose not to; or like someone I know whose parents own an apartment that he can live in rent free (but he wants to live in central London). I know two people in social housing but I would argue they are reasonably secure. Many of my neighbours are renters but then again many of them appear to be immigrants from places like HK (and are probably pretty recent).

Almost everyone I know who bought in London has received help from parents including me and DH (who live in his mum's house rent free for 3 years). Most people we know have gotten actual cash though. I used to know far more colleagues in my age group who rented but now that I am 31, most seem to have bought and the younger ones are increasingly staying at home while working in London. Given that the latter is what Dh and I did as young graduates in London, I highly doubt they would be forced into private rental as DH and I managed to save £90k in 3 years when living at home which still counts for something even in London with the current mortgage rates.

Logically, my experience is not the reality. the home ownership rate for those under 40 is something like 50%. So there are a lot of people out there in private rental. Yet I feel like it is something I read about in the papers. Is this why there has been no political consensus on the housing crisis because middle income people are insulated from it (even in London where the housing crisis is most acute). I must imagine people in cheaper areas must be truly insulated from it because a friend of mine on (less than £30k) can afford to buy a modest flat in the midlands on his own.

DH does have family who are in long term rental (don't think its choice) but they live in a different country so probably not fair to compare.

OP I am from a similar background to you, and I reached a conclusion that it is indeed your circle. My circle is also mainly immigrants (from various backgrounds - from the ones who don't speak English and work manual jobs to the top tier academics). And yes, all own property in London. I am the odd one who doesn't, but it was due to my decision to have children in less than ideal circumctances (solo) instead, otherwise would have been there as well.

The quality that they all have (as do you, I expect) is go-getting attitude, and an ability to make short-term sacrifice for long-term gain. This is exactly why you moved countries several times, studied, accepted you will have to live for a few years in sub-optimal conditions to save for a deposit etc.

Many local people will just not be able to do this (local people in any country, this is not UK specific). Not because they are dumb or unskilled, but they just don't have the same motivation, perspective and reference base. It is a bit weird when my younger colleagues complain that they are priced out of the property market, but then very obviously spend £200 on a night out, thousands on holidays and Christmas, and £5 every day on coffee and pastry. Avocado toast is a meme, of course, but there is a bit of sad truth behind it.

Well it is definitely harder as an immigrant. You need ILR or a 20% deposit. Bank would lend you less money. PP have commented why is it I saved so little or why my flat is comparatively cheap- the fact that I was an immigrant did mean we borrowed less and also for a large chunk of my time I was job searching from scratch and also waiting for visa.

My friend with kids spent nearly £10k on all the immigration fees which would be a huge dent on any deposit building. She did buy a house (not in London but in a commuter town though she also rented in a commuter town). I think immigrants do find it harder but as many of us do come from countries with high home ownership rates (given that majority of countries with low ownership rates are European countries with rental protection laws like Germany), I think we probably are more likely to make it a priority. But British people are also obsessed with home ownership.

But the other poster didn't say any of that? I did? (Except not, because you got a lot wrong.)

OP, most of the replies are British who will never understand POV of people who didn't grow up in this country and are looking for every opportunity to get triggered and throw "privileged, you are not worth my emotional labour to explain, so either I will shout at you or I will use presumptive words about you instead" at someone they never met.

I am immigrant and I had so many questions, probably would have asked q like OP. Even when I married, we were at above average salaries but we had very long way to go before building up enormous deposit required and neither of us had families with spare cash lying around...so I did wondering how so many people made it look easy before learning more.

Thank you. I do find it interesting and I have learnt a lot in the course of the thread. As for the posters who say that I should know that my social circle is insulated, how would I know that?

While I might be a graduate and the people I mix primarily with are mostly graduates, the stats do say that a lot of graduates are affected so why don't I know many of them. my DH went to a state comprehensive (albeit a faith school) so that is a big chunk of his social circle (and in north london in the noughties, it was far more common for families who were slightly better off to educate their child privately) and many of the graduates I work with earn around or below the London median wage (which mathematically would tell you that its not enough on its own to buy a home in London or the commuter belt without help or at least a higher earning partner). Yet they mostly own as soon as they hit their 30s.

As for immigrants, there are the factors I mentioned above that could pose barriers in addition to the barriers also faced by locals...

@TheGhostofLoganRoy

"I genuinely don't see any way out except suicide." - I'm in agreement, sorry you feel this way though. It's hard to enjoy your life when you've more or less arrived at this decision. I have a plan for when I'm old/older.

What do you think of the Poll results OP?

Has it made you realise you are a bit insulated?

I meant what are we going to do as a country. We will not be able to support all of the people who are renting and haven’t been able to afford to buy.

I meant what are we going to do as a country. We will not be able to support all of the people who are renting and haven’t been able to afford to buy.

It's a massive issue & the country is not prepared in general for the demographic switch.

FFS @lavender2023 you are insulated. Your peers are like you. That's why they are not experiencing any issues. You are not representative of the majority.

There are people in poverty, who are also your age, they are also your peers, who cannot access mortgages. You said yourself that poverty in London is acute. Reframe this into the majority of people are poorer than you, and they cannot afford mortgages.

I will say it again - go work in a food bank

Another point, you keep banging on about immigrants as though, well if immigrants can, surely anyone can. No. They bloody well can't. Most immigrants in London are there because they are highly qualified, highly skilled, highly experienced professionals, at the top of their game. Once again, they are not the majority.

Go work in a food bank. If anyone needs to, it's you love

Most immigrants I know are not from rich countries and while they might be above average in their home countries, they don't have much when they get here and they aren't always employed in the best jobs. Some do struggle but I suppose they tend to gravitate to places with the best job opportunities. 50% of jobs in London are gained through networking/connections and they are less likely to be immigrants lol.

Think lots of people who go to food banks are immigrants..I have volunteered at refugee drop in sessions but that is a rather unusual position to be in! They have fled their countries and most can't even work because their visas don't allow them to.

People who go to food banks aren't the demographic I am talking about. Their problems are bigger than the rent/buy conundrum. Many could be disabled or have mental health problems and the reason they are going to food banks is due to low benefits. Their problems could include the housing crisis but at the same time also bigger than the housing crisis.their problem is that they can't work but yet they don't receive the support they need in light of their illnesses. That is a different issue..DH's younger sister writes online and doesn't earn much, she definitely can't buy. She doesn't leave the house much. She doesn't go anywhere alone. Even if houses in London were £100k or they had very cheap rentals, she wouldn't be able to make use of that, she would still be living with mum cos her problems are bigger than the housing crisis.

,@lavender2023

People who go to foodbanks are all kinds of demographics. Many are working people, who have bills that are too high to leave anything over for food.

So dh sister, your issue there seems the be that the creative industries are not well paying? True. Many people are in jobs that are not well paying, either because they are nmw, or work on a gig, freelance basis. If your mother in laws welcoming home was not there, your dh sister would probably be just the right demographic for a food bank, and struggling to meet the latest rent increase.

Open your eyes darling.

Actually her issue may be undiagnosed Asperger's. Not sure what it is tbh as MIL wouldn't get it checked up..she definitely can't live independently. It's very admirable she has managed to find something she enjoys which generates some pocket money. But I don't think she can live alone, she needs her mum emotionally and practically.

@lavender2023

Your peers are very lucky. However they are all the exception, and not the norm. You may not realise you are insulated, but you really are.

I don't have insight into your specific set of circumstances, and wouldn't like to second guess what it is that has frames your perspective. However, I suspect that cross-generational health, and luck, have disproportionally benefitted your peers. I think your first step is to accept the fact that your peers are not the norm. And then, you need to put the work in to explore why your peers are having a very different experience from the majority of the population.

You really do sound so entitled and childish OP. Also you come across as though you believe you are superior to others who are struggling. Not a good look at all.

I know people on mortgages (and who own houses outright )who are squeezed financially but that is an entirely different topic! My impression prior to this thread was that most people (excluding those who were not healthy or had bigger issues in their life that superceded home ownership or lived with family for cultural reasons or were new immigrants or lifestyle renters) that I know personally bought property, whether they had a lot of money spare after mortgage or whether it was the ideal home or location is a different issue

No not superior at all but like PP said, it's luck.

, the stats do say that a lot of graduates are affected so why don't I know many of them.

If they weren't born in London so don't have family to live with they may well be avoiding the capital completely unless they get a really good starting wage in IT of finance as everyone know it's really expensive.

Otherwise I don't know - either you are in a bubble that currently sheltered from this or the research and media must be lying.

This is a investigative journalist who written a book about housing situation focused mainly on renting - I don't think she lying though she focus less on graduates.

I have listened to it before..the journalist herself did buy a property though I understand she was struggling with the payments due to her breakup..I do read stuff like this which prompted the thread

I'm not sure what you want from this thread as no one on MN can really tell you why you apparently don't know any one affected.

Clearly people are still managing to buy because otherwise the market would stall and prices drop (London may have issue with outside investors ) - and it's widely reported in media that more are struggling and reasons why.

There are structural issues with housing market and on top peoples personal circumstances and then personal choices where you live and how much your prioritise buying etc all of which obviously plays into personal situations but the structural issue are making it harder for more people which seems to be generally accepted by politicians and media even though there are few immediate answers.

I don’t understand what you don’t understand. It’s basic facts. Across the country, around one third of people rent. Statistics don’t lie. I don’t know why you have such a limited social circle, that’s for you to figure out. How can anyone possibly say? I have a diverse range of friends and with a broad range of salaries.

I thought I knew people with a broad range of salaries too. I know a guy (in his 30s) who earn so little that he doesn't even pay income tax but he owns a house. His parents bought him a house with the monies from downsizing. One of my friends is a part time civil servant (she probably earns around the 30k mark which isn't great for london) but she married an older man who owned a flat and sold that, so she jointly owns a 700k house with him. I know a lady who works for a charity and doesn't earn much, but her dad bought her a flat in cash. I know a few people on shared ownership schemes too.

Thats what i mean, I know plenty of people who have incomes that are low for london standards and their lives are very modest (the friend who doesn't earn enough for income tax could barely afford to take a train to Bristol when we needed to go, he had to take megabus instead). It seems to be a thing in London- people with v modest salaries and lifestyles but somehow there is parental wealth to back it up. You wouldn't know it from looking at them though!

And I know three people with long term health issues, two stay with parents (who are v happy for them to stay for life), one is in temporary accommodation and was homeless (but before her life went haywire, she also jointly owned a house and tbh she has suffered from mental health issues for years so if she didn't deteriorate to that extent, she would still own the home as her DH probably would have stayed with her)

Sounds like you know a lot of people who are in the privileged position of being able to choose not to work much because they're supported by rich parents.

I know a few people like your MegaBus taking friend - people who cry poverty all the time but in truth they're just too lazy to work because they're used to living off the bank of mum and dad.

Do you know any normal ordinary working class people at all? Because there's millions of us in London.

well my DH's grandfather( on his paternal side) was a black cab driver (he is over 90) so i thought technically that made DH working class! though of course DH's grandfather on the maternal side was a director of a big company so much more middle class hence was able to help his daughter. But DH's paternal grandfather does not seem poor to me- he lives in a decent semi in the london suburbs, he has savings and investments, he went on cruises; he has a cleaner and a gardener, he probably did decently before Uber became a thing. He also helped out DH's parents though to a lesser degree than the other side.

DH's cousins are working class but they have their own businesses (including an online vape business and seem to go on holiday a lot (based on facebook). I don't know them well enough to know the intricacies of their housing situation but i know one bought a house before us with his ex wife, but the equity in the house went to the ex wife as it was from her dad when they divorced. I presume they would inherit the grandpa's london semi (and their parents already own).

I recognize the OP and from previous posts know that as a non Brit immigrant (from a MC family) straight into London to do undergrad obviously she is going to be insulated to a degree. There are cultural factors though in the OPs situation that I think certainly have helped her, that the majority of white British people would not consider acceptable:

1. OPs MIL lived in a 1 bed flat with 4 dc until she could afford to move.
2. OP got married very young but has delayed having children.
3. OPs in laws are from a community where large families are typical. This means that 6 adults living in a small 3 bed terrace isn't a big deal. The MIL even offered for another daughter and her DH and dc to move in too, giving up the living room for them to 'live' in.
4. OPs MIL doesn't seem to mind living in a damp, overcrowded house that is in need of a lot of repair. She'd rather her DC save to get on the property ladder than take money for keep that she could use to do said repairs.

The point is that I don't think it's the case that the OP is 'posh' or her MIL is minted. They have lived quite an alternative living setup that has enabled the OP and her husband to get on the ladder in London very young, which is certainly not typical or reflective of the housing situation. Maybe this level of sacrifice should be considered?