I live in London and am 31 but yet I know very few people who would be trapped renting all their lives.

[lavender2023]

I am wondering if this is atypical? I am talking about people I know personally. Of course we know people who rent or live with parents. Those who live with parents (long term) tend to be in 2 categories:
(a) long term sick or serious mental health issues; often not working, probably would struggle to buy or even rent their own place with or without a housing crisis as their problems are bigger than that (its a shortage of sheltered housing rather than housing per se)
(b) from cultures where this is normal and even expected.

The people I know who rent tend to be recent immigrants (last 2-3 years; the immigrants I know who have been here long enough to obtain ILR all own, including me) or they are renting for lifestyle reasons (could easily afford to buy but choose not to; or like someone I know whose parents own an apartment that he can live in rent free (but he wants to live in central London). I know two people in social housing but I would argue they are reasonably secure. Many of my neighbours are renters but then again many of them appear to be immigrants from places like HK (and are probably pretty recent).

Almost everyone I know who bought in London has received help from parents including me and DH (who live in his mum's house rent free for 3 years). Most people we know have gotten actual cash though. I used to know far more colleagues in my age group who rented but now that I am 31, most seem to have bought and the younger ones are increasingly staying at home while working in London. Given that the latter is what Dh and I did as young graduates in London, I highly doubt they would be forced into private rental as DH and I managed to save £90k in 3 years when living at home which still counts for something even in London with the current mortgage rates.

Logically, my experience is not the reality. the home ownership rate for those under 40 is something like 50%. So there are a lot of people out there in private rental. Yet I feel like it is something I read about in the papers. Is this why there has been no political consensus on the housing crisis because middle income people are insulated from it (even in London where the housing crisis is most acute). I must imagine people in cheaper areas must be truly insulated from it because a friend of mine on (less than £30k) can afford to buy a modest flat in the midlands on his own.

DH does have family who are in long term rental (don't think its choice) but they live in a different country so probably not fair to compare.

@needtofatoff I think there's quite a gulf between someone who is 49 vs 40 in terms of how much the landscape changed. Lending tightened up considerably after 08 which also resulted in stagnating wages & house prices increasing. Someone in their early 40s would have been mid 20s then which would have been quite young to get on the ladder.

Is this a stealth brag? You say that you both saved £90k in 3 years so that's £15k per year per person out of your taxes income. You do understand many many many people don't take home that much money never mind the chance to save.
This is your privileged life showing. And it doesn't look very nice.

@lavender2023 I don't really understand the point of your post.
At first I thought it a typical British private school person talking.
But, reading all your updates. It's clear you aren't British and not rich at all.
Over £400,00 is not a rich house in England at all, let alone in London.
So what is the point in your post?
Do you think you're family are rich? Because, based on the information you've given, they are pretty poor.
Which school did you go to in the UK?
I am sorry. I am not believing any of your story.

You are privileged and know a lot of privileged people.
WC folk don’t have the same experiences.

I don't think she really is though. Reading the thread I think she's just trying to pose as a privileged person looking for attention.

😆😆 Shows how clueless you are really tbh. Your mate has parents who can let him live rent free in an apartment in central London and you’re wondering why so many people are ‘trapped renting’. Word to the wise, it’s because house buying is expensive and a lot of people struggle to manage it. DH and I both have well paid, professional jobs, but only bought our first house when we were 35 and 38. Couldn’t afford it before then. It’s tough and some people never manage it.

I didn't go to school in the UK, I went to university. I am not rich lol, i never suggested I was. We bought the flat when I only had 3 years left to run on my visa which meant that not all my income could be counted towards the affordability criteria. It restricted how much we could borrow according to our mortgage broker. But we had to buy at that time because I wasn't sure how long ILR would take to process (in truth it did take months) and I didn't want to potentially wait years to buy.

We were on far lower incomes than we are on now currently, we now earn combined £120k. my DH's family is poor (though I do accept that his mum benefitted from help with her deposit in 1997). I was an international student, so my family paid for my university fees which i guess is a benefit as I didn't have student loan. Though student loan doesn't really affect the affordability calculation but visa status definitely does!

Surely what I am saying is even more striking when you consider that i am not rich but yet most of my social circle own properties (the ones that are not new immigrants or long term sick)? Doesn't this show how unfair it is, it isn't even about how 'rich' you are, but how much your parents are willing to help you and if they invested at the right time in the London/SE property game...

No he could live rent free in an apartment in a commuter town, but he doesn't want to live there. He chooses to rent in central london. Thats what I meant.

@lavender2023
I am trying to understand. So it's not how rich your parents are but how much they are willing to help you?
I think most parents would do anything in their power to help their children.
Are you saying that your parents don't help?
Or, that you wish they would help more?
If I am missing the point then I apologise but it's not clear to me.

There must be lots of people like me and DH. I come from another country and studied at a london university. DH is a third generation Londoner who studied at the same uni, we fall in love, DH goes to europe to do his masters (paid and we get married there, we move back to london and stay with his mum while i am waiting for visa outcome and while we are settling in jobs (1 year waiting for visa becomes 2 years and then we have enough to buy so stay an extra year while flat hunting). We still have modest incomes and stay in a modest flat albeit in London. Most of the people we know who bought haven't bought huge places either, its all around the same price bracket other than one guy who is a doctor and had an inheritance.

Does this all sound privileged (other than the university part)? But 40% of young people go to university these days.

You went to university and have a professional job and that clearly influences who is in your social circle. I live in an outer London borough with high levels of deprivation and there is no way many of the 30 somethings here could afford to buy a property.

And the other problem is that house prices have gone up so much compared to wages that even those who can buy, are often limited when it comes to location and/or space. I know an older couple in very ordinary jobs and with no family help who bought a large semi-detached period house for £250k in 2002 in zone 2. That house is now worth over £700k. You can't even buy a 1 bed flat for £250k now. Yet salaries have not changed significantly during that same period.

Yes that sounds privileged.

how old are they though? My DH was 29 when we left his family home and bought. I wouldn't say he is trapped in rental or the family home for the rest of his life. Even if they are 33 or 35, if they are saving, i think they have a good chance and will be able to buy if they want to. I am not talking about not knowing people living with parents or renting, i am talking about people who clearly have no other choice and there is no way they would ever have the choice.

My DC are 31 and 28. Even though they are charged a nominal rent by us (a third less than DC2 was paying when living in a rented room), the most either of them can save each month is £100. That's not going to get them the kind of deposit they will need any time soon.

@QUT The OP said that she was an immigrant reasonably near the top of her very first post. She was never posing as a British private school attendee. She actually mentions having ILR.

@wheresmymojo not sure where you’ve got that info from - 24k is not middle income - the median uk salary is now £33k and the mean is £39k.

It does sound privileged (and that's not said in a pejorative way), partly because of the location (London). That rockets everything up into another league, financially. A young couple living with a parent in Sunderland while they save some money then eventually afford a small flat together isn't the same as a couple doing the same in London. Also, university is still a privilege, even though it is much more accessible to the working class than it used to be.

Absolutely flabbergasted by the claim that the OP isn't rich.

OP, you might not be from a wealthy background, but your partner is clearly from substantial generational wealth - his mum owned a massive house in London and didn't need to work much because she was financially supported by your partner's grandfather. So essentially two generations are living off the wealth of the grandfather. That's what generational wealth is.

In addition to that, both of you are earning substantially more than the average income, and your partner is earning a very high salary.

On what planet is that not rich???

Over £400,00 is not a rich house in England at all, let alone in London..

Yes. Yes it is. This is just Mumsnet being ridiculous and putting on airs and graces to try to impress people. Outside the super-wealthy privileged bubble, a £400k house is rich.

I'm looking at houses in London right now and the houses I'm looking at (two bed, 5 mins walk from a tube station) are all in the £100k-200k range. I can't even imagine how huge and luxurious a £400k house would be, given that you can easily buy a two-bedroom house in London for under £150k. If your house costs £400k then it's either a mansion, or in an extremely wealthy elite area.

But of course the MN tinkly laugh brigade love to humble brag about how they "only" own whatever, they "only" earn some vast sum that's three times the average, they "only" lived rent-free for x many years, their parents are poor because they "only" own a three-bedroom house in London, they "only" go skiing twice a year, their toilet is "only" gold plated and not solid gold... either you're incredibly out of touch and genuinely believe these things to be "poor" or you're doing it on purpose to brag. Either way, it's obnoxious.

I just looked on RightMove and £400k will get you an EIGHT bedroom house in Liverpool.

Not rich my arse.

I'm looking at houses in London right now and the houses I'm looking at (two bed, 5 mins walk from a tube station) are all in the £100k-200k range

I'm intrigued, can you link?

OP, you might not be from a wealthy background, but your partner is clearly from substantial generational wealth - his mum owned a massive house in London

I think you're being a little OTT, the OPs mil doesn't own a massive house in London.

The OP is not rich, yes her home cost 400k but she didn't pay cash & relies on income. 1 in 40 homes in the UK are worth 1 million or more & many will have cost nothing like that.

Do you live up north? Or have you done the southerner thing of just looking at rightmove and assuming those cheap houses are representative? (A bit like if a northerner pointed at the cheap housing in Jaywick as if it was indicative of what a young couple might need to spend down south.)

I can categorically say that £400k will not buy you a mansion in the nice areas of the north (i.e. the kind of area a comfortably off person might want to live in). It may buy you a mansion in the most run-down and deprived areas, but that's not where people want to live if they can afford not to.

In most nice areas up here it will buy you a 3 or 4 bed semi or detached house (exact spec depending on precise location). In the priciest areas of popular cities that would probably reduce to a 2 bed or terrace. But a huge house in a nice area requires a lot more than that.

The MIL owns a three-bedroom house in London, to me that's insane wealth.

Christ posh people really do live in bubbles.

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/135665135#/?channel=RESBUY

A 1930s flat like this also in north london. And the residents have bought the freehold for my flat and no ground rent. My kitchen is bigger. Also my flat is low rise. It felt very spacious after sharing my SIL's old room with DH! Dh doesn't particularly want to move but I would not mind moving if I can get a 3 bed flat or slightly bigger 2 bed flat for only a small increase in the mortgage. I don't want to stretch! And want to stay where we are.

I’m also 31 and in London and you’re absolutely delusional if you think there isn’t a housing crisis just because you’re alright, Jack. Most of me and my friends are paying £1000-£1500 or even more for small private rents (most of us university educated), I’d love for tips on how you’d have bought said house without being able to stay in a 3 bedroom house in London for free while you did so.

In fact I've just searched for a budget of £400k in Liverpool, and yes - the list is pretty much all normal 3-4 bed terraced, semi or detached houses. Not mansions, but normal family homes. I have nonidea where you got 8 beds from.

These houses may not be lived in by "the poor", but they are also not lived in by "the rich". They are what people buy if they earn a comfortable (but not super high by MN standards) salary, and pay for their home out of their wages over the course of 25 years.