I live in London and am 31 but yet I know very few people who would be trapped renting all their lives.

[lavender2023]

I am wondering if this is atypical? I am talking about people I know personally. Of course we know people who rent or live with parents. Those who live with parents (long term) tend to be in 2 categories:
(a) long term sick or serious mental health issues; often not working, probably would struggle to buy or even rent their own place with or without a housing crisis as their problems are bigger than that (its a shortage of sheltered housing rather than housing per se)
(b) from cultures where this is normal and even expected.

The people I know who rent tend to be recent immigrants (last 2-3 years; the immigrants I know who have been here long enough to obtain ILR all own, including me) or they are renting for lifestyle reasons (could easily afford to buy but choose not to; or like someone I know whose parents own an apartment that he can live in rent free (but he wants to live in central London). I know two people in social housing but I would argue they are reasonably secure. Many of my neighbours are renters but then again many of them appear to be immigrants from places like HK (and are probably pretty recent).

Almost everyone I know who bought in London has received help from parents including me and DH (who live in his mum's house rent free for 3 years). Most people we know have gotten actual cash though. I used to know far more colleagues in my age group who rented but now that I am 31, most seem to have bought and the younger ones are increasingly staying at home while working in London. Given that the latter is what Dh and I did as young graduates in London, I highly doubt they would be forced into private rental as DH and I managed to save £90k in 3 years when living at home which still counts for something even in London with the current mortgage rates.

Logically, my experience is not the reality. the home ownership rate for those under 40 is something like 50%. So there are a lot of people out there in private rental. Yet I feel like it is something I read about in the papers. Is this why there has been no political consensus on the housing crisis because middle income people are insulated from it (even in London where the housing crisis is most acute). I must imagine people in cheaper areas must be truly insulated from it because a friend of mine on (less than £30k) can afford to buy a modest flat in the midlands on his own.

DH does have family who are in long term rental (don't think its choice) but they live in a different country so probably not fair to compare.

@MaximumSunshine · Today 14:06

I bought a flat with DH with 5% deposit, worked a FT legal PA job and he was on a grad scheme. Both of ys worked in pubs. We were 21.

When we wanted to upsize, rented it out. Didnt declare tax. Moved to a shitty hostel (homeless one) where £100 p wk for a hideous room. Then spent 1y sub-letting a room off Lithuanians on a council estate. £400 pcm.

Saved up around £60k and by age 26 had 2 properties (flat and 4 bed house). Re mortgaged flat equity to pay stamp duty. Both of us had zero help parents, in fact mine have tried to ruin my life several times. We now own 4 properties age 40.

Means our kids can spend only 400 pcm for a whole 2 bed house and sub let a room, and avoid housing stress we had age 20-25.

What the fuck have I just read? I agree with @TarantinoIsAMisogynist when they said.......

"You're openly admitting to evading tax? And this is somehow meant to be an aspirational story of an ordinary working person made good? Words fail me!"

"I also love how you and the OP make the effort to mention the lower paying jobs you had age 20/21 ("we worked in pubs, dont you know?!") while avoiding any mention of the high income that you must have been earning to enable you to buy a 4 bed house age 26. You and the OP both present half the story, missing out all the essential context."

I am actually embarrassed for you @MaximumSunshine . You should be ashamed of yourself. Scamming the system by avoiding paying tax, to fill your boots with multiple properties, and 'wealth.' Whilst other people haven't got a pot to piss in, and are paying £1000+ per month, for a shitty little private flat with no security of tenure. And then you have the audacity to present it as a tale of blood, sweat, and tears, and hard work?!

Was this supposed to be some kind of 'working-class hero makes good' tale? Because you have failed spectacularly!

I think you make a good point on house vs flat.

We live in a flat in London but cannot afford a house (in our part of London anyway, and we don’t really want to move further out).
Our flat is worth less than a typical house in Surrey or Kent, but some people are so averse to buying a flat that they think they can’t afford to buy here, when really they just can’t afford a house here. Which is a completely different thing.

Exactly. A 10% deposit would be £40k - that is a vast sum to save if you are also paying private rental costs.

Then there is the £360k mortgage you'd need. This would require a household income of c. £80-90k, so both adults would need to be earning a fair bit more than the national average (or have one very high earner).

And the monthly repayments on that would be c. £2,243 if you borrowed at 5.65% (a typical current 5 year fix for that LTV) for 25yrs.

So you and your partner lived with his mum for 3 years and saved 90k.

That's about 30k savings per year between you, or 15k savings each per year.

You had no outgoings, you partner's mum wouldn't accept any contribution, and yet you only managed to save 15k each.

Why didn't you do better?

If I was an older FTB like many in London are I would skip the flat stage. There's also the leasehold factor, cladding & that if you bought recently you may not make much on a London flat particularly without a garden. I think many in the Uk aspire to a house.

Also with the flat vs house thing, it is not simply "a question of taste". If you have children or other dependents, a flat might not be suitable. There might be access needs, and no, you don't automatically get help from the council or state generally if you have any access needs. You might need outdoor space or ground floor access. You might need more bedrooms. It's not just about taste, and the crisis is a crisis because people are not able to afford homes that meet their needs.

Our flat is worth less than a typical house in Surrey or Kent, but some people are so averse to buying a flat that they think they can’t afford to buy here, when really they just can’t afford a house here. Which is a completely different thing.

That's a bubble thing, though.

Almost everyone I know is saving like mad in the hopes of maybe being able to buy a one-bedroom flat (which they would look at as their permanent home, not a temporary stop as a way to get on the property ladder), to escape the renting trap.

I don't know a single person (apart from my best friend who is extremely working class but became very famous, which is clearly an aberration) who is even thinking about houses, they all want to buy a flat but can't afford it.

Though I'm house hunting right now and houses in my part of London are actually much cheaper than flats, so it doesn't square.

DH and I managed to save £90k in 3 years

I didn't have the option of living with parents so had to rent - took me 9 year 6 month to save 50 K - and I saved hard and was on above average pay and higher than started London wages mentioned here- gave me 45 K deposit which got us on the midlands housing market. I spend in that time at least 70K + on having a roof over my head.

Rents since then have got so much higher and wages have not - so it's even harder to do that now.

Being able to live rent free is a massive step up - and one I hope our kids may be able to take advantage of most of that depends on where in the country they end up working.

What I am confused about is how so many people who look like they come from otherwise modest backgrounds actually manage it despite not being on very high incomes.

Because they probably did come from modest upbringings but then 20 yrs later nanny dies & the house is worth 600k. Loads of people grew up modestly in London but their family home is now worth 1m plus.

I was waiting for the UK home office to issue my visa for 8 months out of that 3 years. So I could work and the jobs I could do were contract and terribly paid (since i had no stable right to work and only a letter from the home office saying my decision was still being processed). DH was also in between jobs for i think in total of 7 months of that 3 years as a new graduate. DH was on a starting salary £24k for about a year (£30k overtime) and then was on £40-50k for about a year in total (including bonus) before we bought. I moved back to the UK in 2016 (was a student here from 2011 to 2014), got my visa in 2017, got my first proper job late 2017, DH got his new job that paid £46k in mid 2018, started searching for a flat to buy in late 2018. Put in quite a few offers but didn't work out.

Found a place we could afford in June 2019 and managed to complete in October 2019

@lavender2023 where have you bought, how much was your property and how much do you earn? Out of interest

we bought in north london, 2 bed flat for £392k and our combined income was £75k then. i earn £45k, DH is on £75k now.

Well done! You have made owning your own home a priority and probably didn't spend much on extravagant holidays etc whilst you were saving

(Yes be offended but a lot of native Brits don't have your mentality. They would rather moan about how it's all the government's fault that they can't get on the property ladder)

Yes i know people do aspire to a house but in my DH's area of north london, even his mum could barely afford a house in the 1990s despite having 3 kids at that time. She had parental help and that time was the golden age of housing affordability. On her budget, it was literally between that house and a tiny ex council house where you could barely swing a cat.

Even today, her house has the same value as 3 bed flats in parts of north london i actually want to live in so the choice is obvious for me lol. This was also the case all those years ago cos its location location I suppose.

So i think thats why i feel better about the whole thing, we choose to live in north london and it has always been so including in the 1990s. We basically live in the same kind of 1930s flat that DH's family friends (accountant and solicitor) lived in the 1990s at our age.

this thread really wasn't about that. I thought I was the exception and very lucky and it turns out that I am not. This is worrying cos this means social mobility is dead.

How long ago was this? That’s honestly a bargain for a 2-bed flat in north London!

What zone are you in (if that’s not too outing)?

2019 , zone 3.

Social mobility is certainly dying a death. There's relatively little safety net for those struggling, so every minute and every penny is increasingly spent on work and basic survival needs. I'd argue that in this country social mobility has always been a wobbly area, but these days especially, you're much more stuck in what you're born with.

I don't know how any of my friends will ever, ever afford to stop renting, aside from a lucky lottery win or surprise inheritance from a distant unknown relative. What pathway is there? They get paid, they spend it, on essentials. We can barely even afford to meet up for drinks or food any more and usually socialise at each others' houses.

I'm not saying all this for a pity party, but to provide an illustration of a very commonplace way of life these days for young working adults.

Honestly can't tell if this is goadiness or sarcasm.

OP didn't "prioritise" anything, she hit the jackpot by shacking up with a partner from substantial generational wealth who is also a high earner.

I thought I was the exception and very lucky and it turns out that I am not.

Yeah, you are.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/07/social-mobility-uk-worst-50-years-report-finds

Assuming you're asking in good faith, then as PP have said, your circle is unusual. And yes, like you say, lots of people are similarly insulated - I regularly hear people say that anyone can afford to buy a home, 'they just have to work hard, like I did' coming from people in highly paid stable jobs and/or having received family help (either years of living rent free, or cash gifts/inheritance). The ability to live rent free with family, especially in an area that allows you plenty of career options, is huge privilege that often gets overlooked.
Among people I know, which is a fairly wide circle between my and DP's friends as we've moved around a lot and are sociable, incomes range from precarious minimum wage to £100k+ . The very high earners are fine of course, among the more 'normal' spectrum of say £18k-£60k, its not income that is the differentiating factor but family wealth. People buying as a couple also have that obvious advantage.
Basically the huge rise in house prices has made social mobility harder. If you're on £18k and inherit £100k, you're in a better position to buy a house than someone on £60k who won't receive any inheritance.

Basically the huge rise in house prices has made social mobility harder. If you're on £18k and inherit £100k, you're in a better position to buy a house than someone on £60k who won't receive any inheritance.

Absolutely inheritance matters more than earnings which is ridiculously

this thread really wasn't about that. I thought I was the exception and very lucky and it turns out that I am not. This is worrying cos this means social mobility is dead.

You are the exception just not amongst your peers. It's like me saying it's normal where I am to have 1m houses & holiday homes or send dc to private school. It's the norm outside of this bubble.

not the norm!

If you are in your 40's and renting its not down to not having parental help. It might be down to insufficient salary but those of us in our 40's absolutely had every opportunity going to buy including far more relaxed lending criteria.

Its different now, even dr's, lawyers and accountants are needing significant help to buy.