I live in London and am 31 but yet I know very few people who would be trapped renting all their lives.

[lavender2023]

I am wondering if this is atypical? I am talking about people I know personally. Of course we know people who rent or live with parents. Those who live with parents (long term) tend to be in 2 categories:
(a) long term sick or serious mental health issues; often not working, probably would struggle to buy or even rent their own place with or without a housing crisis as their problems are bigger than that (its a shortage of sheltered housing rather than housing per se)
(b) from cultures where this is normal and even expected.

The people I know who rent tend to be recent immigrants (last 2-3 years; the immigrants I know who have been here long enough to obtain ILR all own, including me) or they are renting for lifestyle reasons (could easily afford to buy but choose not to; or like someone I know whose parents own an apartment that he can live in rent free (but he wants to live in central London). I know two people in social housing but I would argue they are reasonably secure. Many of my neighbours are renters but then again many of them appear to be immigrants from places like HK (and are probably pretty recent).

Almost everyone I know who bought in London has received help from parents including me and DH (who live in his mum's house rent free for 3 years). Most people we know have gotten actual cash though. I used to know far more colleagues in my age group who rented but now that I am 31, most seem to have bought and the younger ones are increasingly staying at home while working in London. Given that the latter is what Dh and I did as young graduates in London, I highly doubt they would be forced into private rental as DH and I managed to save £90k in 3 years when living at home which still counts for something even in London with the current mortgage rates.

Logically, my experience is not the reality. the home ownership rate for those under 40 is something like 50%. So there are a lot of people out there in private rental. Yet I feel like it is something I read about in the papers. Is this why there has been no political consensus on the housing crisis because middle income people are insulated from it (even in London where the housing crisis is most acute). I must imagine people in cheaper areas must be truly insulated from it because a friend of mine on (less than £30k) can afford to buy a modest flat in the midlands on his own.

DH does have family who are in long term rental (don't think its choice) but they live in a different country so probably not fair to compare.

I do know people like that but now that I am 31 they bought outside London and now tell me they hate London and would never want to live there.

Surely you already know your experience is atypical.

You know how to check statistics, read a newspaper, look up studies on this stuff. I would hope.

London hayd always had all those groups you mention.

It's just that now nearly all new housing is built to be expensive and sold to yuppies and international investors, which is skewing the demographics now.

London is losing its grassroots cultural scenes because rich people rarely start new movements in art, music etc - they just buy the stuff once it has become mainstream.

Creative people can no longer afford to rent a big enough space to create anything in London, and so have moved out.

So the city is left with a lot of ugly, half empty skyscrapers, while the music venues and art studios are now luxury flats with people sleeping in the doorways of both.

@lavender2023

Those who live with parents (long term) tend to be in 2 categories:
(a) long term sick or serious mental health issues; often not working, probably would struggle to buy or even rent their own place with or without a housing crisis as their problems are bigger than that (its a shortage of sheltered housing rather than housing per se)
(b) from cultures where this is normal and even expected.

This is breathtakingly ignorant!

Both my adult DC are living with us now, as neither of them earns enough to even be able to afford their rent (London). They both work full-time and in jobs that they have been in for several years.

Open your eyes and think. Stupid.

Most people I know who are 31 are renting and they’re stuck in the trap of renting, so can’t afford to save up for a deposit for a mortgage.

The few people I do know who have bought their homes were gifted money from their parents.

There are a couple of people I know who lived at home and then saved up a deposit and did the first time buyers thing where you only need a 5% deposit.

I live in Cornwall though, where wages are crap, higher education was never the norm and house prices are quite high (nowhere near London prices of course).

You're obviously posh, and live in a bubble where you don't know any non-posh people.

Hardly. at my old workplace they paid a lot of graduates £25k-28k. Most of my ex colleagues left after a year. The ones that stayed had family to live with if they stayed on the same pay scale or were more senior (and bought houses in the commuter belt once they reached their 30s).

I'm sorry but this is a sign of being widely out of touch with the world outside of your privileged bubble. The average salary in the UK for someone aged 21 is only £20k. The overall average UK salary is is £32k! £28k is statistically a very high salary for an entry level grad.

Besides industries that are known to draw a lot of middle class/upper middle class people often pay low starting salaries or sometimes nothing (think about how many elite industries, like media and fashion, expect people to do unpaid internships - because they expectation is that they all have wealthy parents to support them).

my DH grew up on free school meals. We just lived with his mum and 3 sisters in a 3 bed victorian terraced and saved.
Having parents who own a massive house makes you posh, regardless of anything else.

She has never earned more than £16k (and raised 4 kids on that). She did have parental help buying her house though.Her dad is probably still helping her out even if we don't know for sure.
This is exactly how generational wealth works - she didn't "raise 4 kids on £16k" she had the luxury of not needing to work hard because her dad financially supported her for her entire life.

That sounds absolutely lovely (providing no family issues, of course!).

I do so strongly wish it was more mainstream nowadays to live in a more communal way like that. People are too isolated and expected to meed every demand and need of life on their own. It's becoming increasingly impossible, and it's never been healthy.

I recognise this comment - it’s almost always a case of sour grapes.

The number of people who suddenly ‘hate’ London and ‘London life’ after they’ve been priced out…

We have an ageing population & more FTBs left London then ever before. P.s I'm a Londoner, I know the pros of London.

Really @lavender2023 ???

i am sorry you feel that way.

Actually I hoped that people would share their experiences to see if this is an isolated incident. If you and your friends are suffering, but yet the people lucky enough to be born to the right family and in the right place don't know about it (and think all you need to do is move out to Watford and live in your childhood bedroom for longer), wouldn't you agree this is something that needs to be addressed?

You're openly admitting to evading tax?

And this is somehow meant to be an aspirational story of an ordinary working person made good?

Words fail me.

I also love how you and OP make the effort to mention the lower paying jobs you had age 20/21 ("we worked in pubs, dont you know?!") while avoiding any mention of the high income that you must have been earning to enable you to buy a 4 bed house age 26. You and the OP both present half the story, missing out all the essential context.

Some of us dont want a nuclear family and prefer to rent, wherever we might live.
That said the housing market does seem rigged to engineer an obsession with ownership in the UK. Other EU countries do seem to be a lot more relaxed and have a healthier attitude to renting.

The British obsession with as-homes-investments is like a disease. It is ludicrous to measure one's self worth via ownership of bricks.

I recognise this comment - it’s almost always a case of sour grapes.

The number of people who suddenly ‘hate’ London and ‘London life’ after they’ve been priced out…

I disagree the traffic & pollution is a driver for many. And many who don't grow up in London think they would scar their dc by staying! Tbh there's areas I wouldn't want to bring my dcs up in.

You're openly admitting to evading tax?

I know, bizarre 😆

five groups- new immigrants/students (who increasingly do the service jobs as well as junior professional jobs), inheritors, the rich, the long term sick and the poor (in council housing).

You are completely ignoring the existence of one of the largest groups: ordinary working people!!

Do you genuinely not realising there are hundreds of thousands of people in London who work full-time, work hard, earn an okay salary, but don't have the Bank of Mum and Dad to rely on? People who have been paying private rent since the age of 18 or 21, and who probably won't ever be able to save up enough for a deposit since most of their salary goes on rent?

It's like you literally don't realise that normal ordinary working people exist, which doesn't exactly help the perception that you live in a bubble of privilege.

how old are they though? My DH was 29 when we left his family home and bought. I wouldn't say he is trapped in rental or the family home for the rest of his life. Even if they are 33 or 35, if they are saving, i think they have a good chance and will be able to buy if they want to. I am not talking about not knowing people living with parents or renting, i am talking about people who clearly have no other choice and there is no way they would ever have the choice.

I think you’ve missed the point of what I said.

My point was that there are people working and living in london that do not fit into your ‘poor’ category that you described. We are talking about housing and buying IN London. Not people who moved away and bought elsewhere.

While I work in london, I have to live reasonably close to it (I’m in Kent and that is enough of a commute) I certainly can’t afford to buy here or there. But I don’t live in council housing and would probably fit into your ‘poor’ group. So I’m telling you 100% that your situation and your friends situations with being given a chunk of money to be able to afford a house or to save 90k in 3 years is unusual. You’re very lucky to have been able to do so, but for most of the population it is unusual.

What a spiteful and mean-spirited comment. Do you feel better now you have probably made people feel a bit more shitty about what is already a dire situation?

The OP apparently never sees them, so she assumes they've all left London.

It says everything really.

I see what you're saying OP, it does feel like the route to homeownership in London is becoming increasingly more narrow, often involving previous generations' housing wealth. And there are lot of ways to do it 'wrong' and lose that chance or never have it.

And of course, the current government are well aware of the housing situation but it's not in their principles or interests to make systematic change. The last Labour gov helped create the situation by welcoming in oligarchs and wealthy internationals to push up the highest house prices, with the rest of the market following. And our economy is built on immigration, again multiple governments' decisions, but little provision is made for sensible homes for the growing number of people. Instead, government and media are happy to pit groups of people against each other.

I don't understand this thread or the argument that the OP is making.

It is being addressed. Campaigns and protests are happening all the time around the housing problem and other inequalities of class we have in this country. I'm just a bit nonplussed that you seem to be wondering if it's an "isolated incident" that you personally don't know anyone struggling with housing... surely that's bleeding obvious? I think it's actually your own awareness that needs widening, and you can do that by listening to the working class people already speaking about this, believing them and telling your friends and peers, because from your comments it's obvious you don't actually realise how much of a class and wealth bubble you are in.

Apologies for any harsh comments from me - I'm sure you're a lovely person, but you're coming across as oddly naive and oblivious on this issue, like you just can't quite get your head around why people are struggling in such vast numbers.

This.

Love the bit about "raised 4 kids on £16k", ignoring the minor detail of having your parents buy your house for you!

This can't be a genuine post, no one is this staggeringly ignorant/stupid...

I stopped reading at the 'we saved £90k in 3 years'. So you saved £2.5k a month and don't think that's out of the ordinary?

actually i was talking about buying a home generally. I mean i bought my flat for £400k. that is the budget for a lot of people who bought in Kent and felt they couldn't afford london cos they wanted a 3 bed house. I chose to live in london albeit in a flat. its a question of taste. there are people with a £1 million budget but who feel they can't afford London.