I live in London and am 31 but yet I know very few people who would be trapped renting all their lives.

[lavender2023]

I am wondering if this is atypical? I am talking about people I know personally. Of course we know people who rent or live with parents. Those who live with parents (long term) tend to be in 2 categories:
(a) long term sick or serious mental health issues; often not working, probably would struggle to buy or even rent their own place with or without a housing crisis as their problems are bigger than that (its a shortage of sheltered housing rather than housing per se)
(b) from cultures where this is normal and even expected.

The people I know who rent tend to be recent immigrants (last 2-3 years; the immigrants I know who have been here long enough to obtain ILR all own, including me) or they are renting for lifestyle reasons (could easily afford to buy but choose not to; or like someone I know whose parents own an apartment that he can live in rent free (but he wants to live in central London). I know two people in social housing but I would argue they are reasonably secure. Many of my neighbours are renters but then again many of them appear to be immigrants from places like HK (and are probably pretty recent).

Almost everyone I know who bought in London has received help from parents including me and DH (who live in his mum's house rent free for 3 years). Most people we know have gotten actual cash though. I used to know far more colleagues in my age group who rented but now that I am 31, most seem to have bought and the younger ones are increasingly staying at home while working in London. Given that the latter is what Dh and I did as young graduates in London, I highly doubt they would be forced into private rental as DH and I managed to save £90k in 3 years when living at home which still counts for something even in London with the current mortgage rates.

Logically, my experience is not the reality. the home ownership rate for those under 40 is something like 50%. So there are a lot of people out there in private rental. Yet I feel like it is something I read about in the papers. Is this why there has been no political consensus on the housing crisis because middle income people are insulated from it (even in London where the housing crisis is most acute). I must imagine people in cheaper areas must be truly insulated from it because a friend of mine on (less than £30k) can afford to buy a modest flat in the midlands on his own.

DH does have family who are in long term rental (don't think its choice) but they live in a different country so probably not fair to compare.

It’s a big ask to ‘organise’ in the face of billions of pounds of foreign ‘investment’ in the London property market. I think people are very aware of the housing crisis even if they are able to compromise around it personally. There are efforts to organise around it but it’s not exactly easy. When I lived in London I was very conscious about the housing issues and used to research into what the local council were doing etc but after a while it was so depressing and such a hiding to nothing I gave up and left.

I do admit to being in a graduate/professional bubble. Among the people I am close enough to discuss this sort of thing with, as many of them didn’t receive family help as did. People forget that there are young people in exceptionally well-paying jobs (law, finance, etc.)

Unfortunately it's still rare that the people doing these exceptional well paid jobs come from a diverse background.

Money sticks with money. You’re probably insulated and privileged - I mean that factually rather than insultingly!

We bought in London cos my OH earns quite a bit more than average. No family cash or free pads to live in London while we save for us. I don’t have any school friends who have had ‘help’ as it’s euphemistically called. I certainly don’t see it as the norm. Am aware others do see it as normal though - you just need to read the telegraph to realise that!

Come on you realise your experience IS privileged. you mention graduates in your last workplace. What do you think all the none graduate are doing? Look at average salaries in London, think about all the public sector workers striking and never in receipt of bonuses. My friendship group is like yours but going to mum and baby groups I’ve met many women in very precarious housing situations, facing homelessness, short term and unpractical housing, hospitalised children due to mould affecting breathing. Whilst you don’t personally know people the housing crisis is very real

Just to add, I’m not originally from London and one of the reasons I was keen to buy property in London is so that my own children have somewhere to live when they start out in their career and don’t waste money on London rent.

I think a lot of people went through this thought process when buying a property in London.

I've Belgian friends whose parents have always rented outside Brussels both university professors they think we're weird to own.

I've Italian friends husband and wife rent in Milan they're both in seriously well paid careers no kids, they've bought in Switzerland, it's a holiday home until they retire. Their rental is slumlike to our eyes. Landlord spends bugger all on it so it decays but the rent is cheap.

Both think we're odd to be obsessed with owning

What is this post, a stealth brag? Quite uncouth OP.

With your breeding one would expect better.

the thing is I do have friends who are on benefits (and also long term sick) and also live with parents but I don't think they would have been able to own even without a housing crisis. In order to get a mortgage you need a steady income and it is hard if you have a long term illness to get that. I also don't think its good for them to live without their family as they need that extra bit of support.

What post mine or someone else?

Not yours, the OP = original poster (lavender2023 who made this thread).

Only 46% of Londoners own their own home.

30% rent privately.

The remainder are in social housing.

So…. Yes vast numbers won’t be buying their homes.

I know italians in Puglia. Three homes, three generations. They're down a farm track, whenever a son, daughter marries, they knock up an extension. It's weirdly rambling but everyone lives together, lovely for the children

I went to a very posh private school (although, I was on the lower scale, my mum had to work extremely hard at her own business to pay mine and my sister's fees).
All of my fellow schoolmates which own their own houses had their parents buy them for them, and I'm talking five bedroom houses with driveways etc.
If people are honest, very few people in their 20's/30's do it on their own.
One of my classmates had a horse given to her which cost £25,000 for her 18th birthday!
I know that's all very extreme though.

I think you have identified the problem. In my department, most people buy in their late 20s and early 30s too. These are ones without parental help. The ones with tend to buy mid to late 20s. Those starting families tend to talk about moving from their apartments to family houses.

There are a lot of middle income earners who won't be renting forever.

I did say I know people who are poor and could never afford their own place (and am close to them) but they tend to be long term sick with unstable earnings. It just reflects that London is perhaps becoming quite stratified into five groups- new immigrants/students (who increasingly do the service jobs as well as junior professional jobs), inheritors, the rich, the long term sick and the poor (in council housing). It is feudal. So it is not surprising i only mainly know the inheritors and the sick and the new immigrants as well as a few rich people.

There's also a lot less social housing now.

and the poor (in council housing).

not necessarily poor though. I know someone who had a council property, an inheritance enable to buy it & when they sold it another 350k came their way.

I did say I know people who are poor

Do you know how you sound? "But I have poor friends!"

And your analysis of the "strata" has missed out the extremely large number of ordinary working class people who earn an average wage and don't live in council housing.

@justasking111 most European countries have far more tighter rent controls/legislation. Many here want to own for security.

Just to add, I’m not originally from London and one of the reasons I was keen to buy property in London is so that my own children have somewhere to live when they start out in their career and don’t waste money on London rent.

I think a lot of people went through this thought process when buying a property in London.

With hybrid working I think things will look very different in 10 plus yrs time. Personally I'm encouraging my dc to look abroad, more opportunity imo.

Well, young people don’t just choose London for their career. It’s also a very exciting place to be when you’re young. I would want future DC to have this option open to them without worrying about the state of the London rental market.

I think they may leave London though as there are places where someone on a lower salary can buy a home. And their jobs taken by the new immigrants who may not live in the UK forever to justify buying a home or who may buy a home with the wider family..

What this all means in effect is that people are calibrating themselves to it so people who don't do things in exactly the same way are punished..

What about the people who aren’t ‘poor’ and don’t live in social housing, but who aren’t high enough earners to save enough after rent and (ever rising) bills each month to feasibly be able to afford to buy in London? In stark contrast to you, I know very few people who are in the position to buy currently without financial help from parents. You’re cutting out an entire demographic of people.

I bought a flat with DH with 5% deposit, worked a FT legal PA job and he wss on a grad scheme. Both of ys worked in pubs. We were 21.

When we wanted to upsize, rented it out. Didnt declare tax. Moved to a shitty hostel (homeless one) where £100 p wk for a hideous room. Then spent 1y sub-letting a room off Lithuanians on a council estate. £400 pcm.

Saved up around £60k and by age 26 had 2 properties (flat and 4 bed house). Re mortgaged flat equity to pay stamp duty.

Both of us had zero help parents, in fact mine have tried to ruin my life several times. We now own 4 properties age 40.

Means our kids can spend only 400 pcm for a whole 2 bed house and sub let a room, and avoid housing stress we had age 20-25.

Here we go. Littering in the working-class credentials:

"My DH grew up on free school meals" "my first post grad job only paid us £25k a year" "we stayed at his mum's house and saved up" "she can only afford lidl and aldi now" Bore off.

My peers are absolutely crucified by rental prices at the moment, and are crushed by the prospect of having to rent all their lives and not being able to save up for so much as a holiday, let alone a mortgage or down payment. It is an absolutely shit situation, and my heart aches for them every day. I myself am in the same position. I'm not far enough removed from it to be speculating on it with as much curious interest and bemusement as you seem to be. It makes me sick and angry, and the people chiming in going "hmm, yes, all my pals own a home too, what housing crisis?" make it worse.

It really is not difficult to imagine, surely, that your personal viewpoint on a societal issue is going to be massively informed by your own situation and the people around you, nor should it be hard to imagine that the people close to you are likely to be similar to you in social status and class and income? Well, that's your answer. Same to the PP who said "same OP, I keep hearing about a housing crisis but all my peers own a home". Jesus wept.

And what about "change only really happens when the middle classes organise"?? Wow.

What are you actually wanting from this thread?