I think an 18 year old is an adult -AIBU?

[Drdoomish]

They can get married
They can live under their own steam away from parents
They can take out loans and get into exceptional debt
They can fight and die for our country
They can become an MP or councillor
They can legally get pissed in a pub
They can get their own tattoo
They can sit on a jury
They can leave education
And do all the things that adults can do...

So why, WHY, do the government use a parents income to decide how much living cost loan they will lend to an 18-24 university student?

YABU - An 18 yr old uni student is still a dependent
YANBU - An 18 yr old uni student is an adult in their own right.

@Mytholmroyd Thats really splitting hairs about Imperial. It’s always been one of the best unis in the world.

How many actually are being disadvantaged by parents not finding enough money? How many take expensive halls when they don’t need to? Do we truly know? Huge numbers on MN won’t share a bathroom at uni but they do at home.

@TizerorFizz You do know that access to halls or student houses is extremely limited in many areas. Some students are on wait lists and just have to take what they can get regardless of cost or bathrooms. Naturally the more affordable halls get snapped up early on usually by those who have firmed offers pre A levels. Most move into shared homes in year 2/3, which is another bun fight with students queuing outside agents or snapping up rentals as soon as they are released online without even visiting the place.

Most firm pre A level results. Then they do get a choice.Obviously not guaranteed but it’s the better halls that go first quite often. The vast majority are not going as insurance or clearing students who have had issues with accommodation for many years! What percentage do not get a cheap hall if they apply for the cheaper ones when they should? Again it’s anecdotal hearsay and no figures. DD went as insurance and got a shared room. No one else wanted it. The vast majority get uni accommodation everywhere and no one was talking about y2/3 where there’s cheaper areas for many to consider. The bigger issue is they don’t want to.

DHs dad worked in a factory and mum worked part time in an office. Decades ago they were expected to make a contribution. This is not a new situation.

@Dixiechickonhols well said. We had an offer from York, and the accommodation we were directed to at open days-‘premium’ had been talked up by staff and student ambassadors before we saw it. ‘Oh it’s not the cheapest but it’s so good’.
And I’m sure there’s some marketing strategy to manipulate you into the prime accommodation. The cheaper halls we were shown at another uni hadn’t been cleaned or tidied. Of course the kids are going to want the nicer rooms. We all need to accept that these are businesses and base our decisions accordingly.

DD went as insurance and got a shared room. No one else wanted it.

Ds went as insurance and got a 1 bed flat. His “choices “ were the 5 cheapest shared kitchen and shared bathroom places. His university doesn’t allocate until after results day and theoretically insurance students stand as good a chance as firm ones as getting what they want.

Lots of uni halls now are owned by private providers. If I was in the student housing business I would build a huge block on en-suite rooms where the slight reduction in numbers of tenants (maybe 10%) would be offset by the increased rent charged for en-suite versus shared bathroom (maybe 30% more). The idea is to make money - not ensure that the children of the squeezed middle can manage their budget effectively. It’s big business but the 18yo caught in the middle are mocked for being precious when in reality their choices aren’t really choices at all.

These were UCL (London) prices from their open day.
Kings (London) had some cheaper rooms but those are for those eligible for their affordable accommodation scheme eg contextual and care leavers.
I’m not saying London is be all and end all but you can understand why parents with teens getting min loan of under £5000 won’t even let teen look.

The cheaper private room yr 2 and 3 is often not case. Again lots of parents at open days worrying and questioning this. My impression was Durham, Bristol etc you’ll struggle for accommodation and pay more than the halls.

I went to one of those unis and seem to remember that living in a shared house was, for me, more expensive than halls, particularly given that it was a 12 month contract whereas the hall fees were charged per term. For me the really striking point is that rents appear to have more than doubled, perhaps even tripled, since I was a student, whereas the minimum maintenance loan has not significantly changed.

For example, in my second and third years I paid around 350/month for a room in a shared house, and that was on the expensive side. There were cheaper options available. Even back then my rent alone was more than my entire maintenance loan, and then of course I needed money for food, books, clothes, transport, student activities etc. I did work in all the holidays but even then it wouldn't have been nearly enough without a generous contribution from my parents which they were able and happy to pay.

But now the gap between even just the cost of accommodation, before you've factored in any other costs whatsoever, and the maintenance loan is just astronomical. I literally don't understand what students whose families can't afford to just subsidise them to the tune of thousands of pounds a year are supposed to do. The sums just do not add up.

But now the gap between even just the cost of accommodation, before you've factored in any other costs whatsoever, and the maintenance loan is just astronomical. I literally don't understand what students whose families can't afford to just subsidise them to the tune of thousands of pounds a year are supposed to do. The sums just do not add up.

We were helping/advising a very talented young person from a single parent family as he was applying to study the subject my husband teaches. He found a great course in Brighton but the cost of accommodation in that area completely outweighed his maximum loan so he ended up applying to Sheffield instead.

I hear similar stories where young people are not applying to expensive cities such as Bristol or Durham regardless of their grades etc.

per week!!!

Crikey… the last time I was renting in a shared house was in a relatively expensive part of Manchester in 2017 and was £350 per month

I think it is actually a scandal

I had no idea about this and am absolutely shocked

Some students are on wait lists and just have to take what they can get regardless of cost or bathrooms

Another young person I know applied to a Manchester area based uni through clearing. There was NO accommodation available in the entire area. There are various facebook groups devoted to people finding student rooms in the area and they are full of scams or expensive studios. Students are literally waiting for people to drop out then trying to take whatever becomes available no matter what.

where from? The magic money tree?

I live in the EU and my kids were born here. They are only very young but I am already having to think about whether to put them through bilingual private school, which is considered more or less essential if you want your kids to have the opportunity to do their higher education in an English speaking country, or just go with the local school system.

My eldest won't be university age for another 16 years and I'm already thinking, what's the point? Even without now having to pay international fees instead of home fees, the cost of going to university in the UK would be unaffordable so why even take that possibility into consideration?

Yes per week. Think minimum contract 40 weeks.

In durham you will struggle to get self catering accommodation. Both my dc have my dc had to pay more than £300 per week . private house was about £150

The other issue is being a guarantor. I had to send in all kinds of paperwork (pay slips etc) and have a minimum income level to be able to guarantor my daughter in a shared house). Student halls you simply have to sign.

Some of the young people I know from perhaps single parent families or whose parents are on benefits due to ill health) would not pass these guarantor checks.

To answer your question, because we always pick on the vulnerable ie. the young, the infirm, the elderly. It's way easier than doing the right thing.

Not the point of the thread I know, but why would you bother anyway when there are so many excellent universities in the EU, many charging only nominal fees?

I think growing up in a bilingual household and with the general exposure to English people get generally living in Europe, they would be fine anyway.

Logically you are right, I know, but I lived in the UK until past the age of 30 and it feels super weird to me that my kids are British citizens but will most likely never live in the UK. We have absolutely no good reason to move to the UK the way things currently are, and even though I think going to their other country to study for three or four years and having a fantastic time in London or Manchester or Newcastle could be brilliant, it just doesn't make any financial sense whatsoever, does it?

Not going by this thread! If it gives anyone hope at all, I do know people currently renting in houseshares in Manchester ranging from £270–£370 per month for a room.

I suppose even they decide to go elsewhere, it’s nice to have studying in the UK as an option for them!

Really shocking about halls prices, especially given the amount people pay in tuition fees nowadays. There should absolutely be rules preventing less well-off students from being priced out of higher education.

Although it’s not even just ‘less well-off’ students is it – it’s anyone without an enormous amount of surplus income to support students (if you’re looking at £1.2k per month for halls at some unis).

Paradoxically less well off students are potentially in a better position as they are eligible for full maintenance grant and potentially additional bursaries etc.

It's the children from middle income families who can't afford to meet the full short fall required (particularly if they have more than one child at university at the same time), particularly with cost of living increases, that are squeezed out.

My DD is in Year 13 and an awful of her year are planning gap years to save (I'm not saying that saving for university is a bad thing, but it's not something that has been quite as necessary as it is now until comparatively recently).

Ds just gone into 3rd year. He's in Liverpool and gone back to halls as at £143 a week it's cheaper than renting as no bills and he can walk everywhere. We are just over the cusp for anything more than the minimum loan. Dh retired due to illness health in his first year and is on an occupational health pension. I work in the NHS at a band 7 level so pay is reasonable but not megabucks. We have Dd at sixth form . Now needs 180 a t rem.to get her to college ( the closest one) and on top of that we need to help ds who's rent isn't even covered by his loan. He worked all summer 40 hour weeks and has gone back exhausted so he has to ask us for less. His flat mates from Wales similar. parent income get £12000. It's only English students who are effected this way

Paradoxically less well off students are potentially in a better position as they are eligible for full maintenance grant and potentially additional bursaries etc.

although far less likely to be applying in the first place; and probably not having seen any great benefit (apols for the sarcasm) from that low household income for the previous 18 years. With that base threshold for the max maintenance loan also unchanged since 2008. Likewise the upper threshold has stayed pretty much the same as well.

Added to that (in England at least) the max maintenance is now around £1500 lower than it would have been if raised over the past few years in line with inflation.

The fact that over a quarter of unis (and nearer 1/3 in the Russell Group) now have foodbanks tells it own sad story.