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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I think an 18 year old is an adult -AIBU?

242 replies

Drdoomish · 22/09/2023 07:19

They can get married
They can live under their own steam away from parents
They can take out loans and get into exceptional debt
They can fight and die for our country
They can become an MP or councillor
They can legally get pissed in a pub
They can get their own tattoo
They can sit on a jury
They can leave education
And do all the things that adults can do...

So why, WHY, do the government use a parents income to decide how much living cost loan they will lend to an 18-24 university student?

YABU - An 18 yr old uni student is still a dependent
YANBU - An 18 yr old uni student is an adult in their own right.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
ssd · 22/09/2023 08:39

Drdoomish · 22/09/2023 07:48

Why did no one complain about it when it was brought in, except Martin Lewis? What do you suggest I do?

It is stupid, yes. But we've all gone "that's the way it is"

It's ridiculous and flies in the face of everything else.

DD considered putting down that she lived with her Dad as it meant she'd get more loan (note not even grant, loan). She didn't, as I didn't raise her to lie, but how many others would. Because of this ridiculous means tested on parents income rule for an adult.

My friend married age 19. Would parents income count then?!

No one complained about it until it affected them personally, like you are doing here.

Teddleshon · 22/09/2023 08:39

Otherwise you risk low paid taxpayers subsidising the choices of wealthy 18 year olds whose families can easily afford to fund it themselves.

redskytonights · 22/09/2023 08:50

Teddleshon · 22/09/2023 08:39

Otherwise you risk low paid taxpayers subsidising the choices of wealthy 18 year olds whose families can easily afford to fund it themselves.

Wealthy 18 year olds are not taking out loans - their families are paying everything up front.

TotalOverhaul · 22/09/2023 08:59

I don't really get your reasoning. Yes, 18 year-olds are adults. But if they are taking on a degree then they really can't be expected to live like a fully independent adult. At DC's unis they were kicked out of halls every holiday so the rooms could be rented out to conferences. So they had to come home. They are studying hard so can't jeopardise that with employment elsewhere except for part time, which doesn't bring in enough to live on. So they are still reliant on parents for funding and home until they graduate. That makes sense to me. they shouldn't get into more debt than they need, so parental income is taken into account.

EuphemiaFuckaduck · 22/09/2023 09:00

I agree with you, @Drdoomish. It's bloody ridiculous.

The worst off are, as always, the "squeezed middle" - they can just about manage to pay their own bills, and are then expected to fund a student or two while they're at it.

However, a lot of this has come about as a result of T. Blair and his 'getting 50% of all young people into university' agenda. It was better when fewer young people went to university, and had grants. It would have been better if his government (or any government) had worked on making alternatives to university seem more appealing. University is not for everyone.

Fififafa · 22/09/2023 09:04

IncompleteSenten · 22/09/2023 08:13

Yes they are legally an adult but let's be honest - how many 18 year olds are actually adults in their behaviours, their views? They're still kids in most cases. More so these days. I don't think I've met an 18 year old I would consider an adult in at least the last 20 years.

Maybe what should happen is raising the age of legal adulthood to 21.

But this whole parents contributing thing is the government trying to save money. It's got nothing to do with whether they think an 18 year old is a child.

They are considered to be adults for everything else though. Why is the students loans process different?

Fififafa · 22/09/2023 09:08

Teddleshon · 22/09/2023 08:39

Otherwise you risk low paid taxpayers subsidising the choices of wealthy 18 year olds whose families can easily afford to fund it themselves.

Except wealthy families are probably not having to worry about student loans.

Spendonsend · 22/09/2023 09:10

I dont understand the argument that they arent really adults if they go to university, they are still dependents.

Its a choice they make as an adult. There are lots of options that arent going to university.

The system makes parents responsible for their adult childs choice. What if I think my son is better off working than doing a degree in a random subject, from a low rank uni, with poor entry grades. He either ends up struggling if I refuse, or i end up supporting something i thinks a waste of time. Which is a bit of conflict.

CorylusAgain · 22/09/2023 09:15

What's worse is that truly independent young adults without the prospect of university and the long term likelihood of higher earnings, are deemed to need less financial support from benefits than those a few years older.
That outrages me.

young adults without parental support just trying to live are penalised for not being 25!!

IncompleteSenten · 22/09/2023 09:17

Fififafa · 22/09/2023 09:04

They are considered to be adults for everything else though. Why is the students loans process different?

£££££

CorylusAgain · 22/09/2023 09:20

CorylusAgain · 22/09/2023 09:15

What's worse is that truly independent young adults without the prospect of university and the long term likelihood of higher earnings, are deemed to need less financial support from benefits than those a few years older.
That outrages me.

young adults without parental support just trying to live are penalised for not being 25!!

And lower rates for national minimum wage based on age!

Teddleshon · 22/09/2023 09:26

Sorry but it simply isn’t true that the offspring of wealthy families aren’t taking out student loans. Many people of all income bands are of the view that if a student doesn’t think the cost of studying is worth paying for themselves then they shouldn’t be doing a degree.

A lot of wealthy people got there through hard work and personal responsibility and are keen to ensure their offspring do the same.

redskytonights · 22/09/2023 09:33

Teddleshon · 22/09/2023 09:26

Sorry but it simply isn’t true that the offspring of wealthy families aren’t taking out student loans. Many people of all income bands are of the view that if a student doesn’t think the cost of studying is worth paying for themselves then they shouldn’t be doing a degree.

A lot of wealthy people got there through hard work and personal responsibility and are keen to ensure their offspring do the same.

And parents who won't pay for their children even if they can afford it is one of the reasons why student loans shouldn't be means tested on parental income.

SleepingStandingUp · 22/09/2023 09:39

CalistoNoSolo · 22/09/2023 07:50

Dd will be my dependant until she can support herself. That's probably 4 or 5 years away as she's just started university. It's what I signed up for when I decided to have a baby. I think you are responsible for your children until they can support themselves.

So if your child decides they want to keep studying until they're in their 40s, you're ok totally financially supporting them? Or if they come out of school and decide they want to travel the world for 5 years and then that work isn't for them? Or their heart is set on writing a book which takes a decade? You're ok paying for everything?

sleepyscientist · 22/09/2023 09:43

Supporting them post 18 is normal however that should be an extra on top of the loan not mandatory.

It would be better if everyone got slightly less and had to work part time or the repayment threshold was lowered and repayments for longer.

Teddleshon · 22/09/2023 09:50

I wouldn’t want to see parents absolved of all financial responsibility for their children as soon as they turn 18. In my view, those that can easily afford it should be at least encouraged if not made to contribute to some extent.

Sunshinenrain · 22/09/2023 10:00

The loans are there so that disadvantaged children have the same options of education as better off children.

University is a choice at the end of the day.

Children from well off families can choose whether they go to uni or not.
Children from poorer families wouldn’t have that choice.

However, I do think it’s a bit unfair as not all parents are willing to help with costs, even if they’re will off.

I don’t know what the income threshold is but if it’s £30k and you’re expected to pay £6k+ a year for your children’s accommodation etc then it’s a lot to find on top of your own rent and bills.

I think perhaps a better idea would be having a bursary that you don’t need to pay back if your parents earn under a certain amount.
But if they earn over the threshold then they should get the full loan but just pay it back.

OceanicBoundlessness · 22/09/2023 10:02

A young person living at home needs considerably less to live on than one in other accommodation at uni (though curiously the table below disagrees). We can support our children to live at home, but will not be able to give them anything like the amount they would be able to borrow to live away.

I think an 18 year old is an adult -AIBU?
WeWereInParis · 22/09/2023 10:04

YANBU. I got the minimum loan, but no parental help at all. I was waved off on the first day of uni, and never moved back home.

Teddleshon · 22/09/2023 10:05

Yes tbf, I’m not familiar with the income bands used and I totally agree that they shouldn’t be onerous in terms of affordability.

Allergictoironing · 22/09/2023 10:25

There are a large number of parents who aren't willing or able to support their children at Uni, despite their income. Some don't plan for it, some don't care, some prefer to spend their money in other ways, there are many, many reasons.

Not having had children myself, I don't know exactly what's taken into account when they look at the parents income - do they look at salary/ investments/ business income purely or disposable income?

If it's the former, that would be totally unfair as the parents could have many commitments such as other children, large mortgages, debts, dependent parents, large costs of commuting/working clothing or equipment etc. You see parents on here with high salaries but still struggling because they have to live near to (expensive housing) and commute into (expensive fares) London, they have SEN children, they have previous debts, one parent is paying towards child maintenance from a previous relationship etc.

Another thing that clearly hasn't been taken into consideration, which affects more middle earners than higher earners, is the massive increase in the cost of living over the last couple of years e.g. My income is around 25% more than it was 2 years ago. I was comfortable then, I'm struggling from pay day to pay day now with if anything fewer outgoings. And this isn't for big ticket or optional items, this is absolute necessities like food, transport and mortgage interest. Parental income cut off for university loans I'm pretty sure hasn't increased by anywhere near that amount or even to allow for the high inflation over the last 2 years, if at all.

Yes I do understand that some very high income families may well be doing well out of this, but this government seems to believe in punishing all for the transgressions of a small minority - listen to their rhetoric around benefits for the unemployed as an example, suggesting that all unemployed are that way by choice, or the policies around disability because a very small number of people take the piss.

Oiyouoverthere · 22/09/2023 10:28

My parents didn't support me through uni, and because of their income I only received minimum loan and paid maximum fees.

It doesn't take in to account the number of dependents still at home either.

Meant my uni years were really quite shit.

WeWereInParis · 22/09/2023 10:30

Allergictoironing · 22/09/2023 10:25

There are a large number of parents who aren't willing or able to support their children at Uni, despite their income. Some don't plan for it, some don't care, some prefer to spend their money in other ways, there are many, many reasons.

Not having had children myself, I don't know exactly what's taken into account when they look at the parents income - do they look at salary/ investments/ business income purely or disposable income?

If it's the former, that would be totally unfair as the parents could have many commitments such as other children, large mortgages, debts, dependent parents, large costs of commuting/working clothing or equipment etc. You see parents on here with high salaries but still struggling because they have to live near to (expensive housing) and commute into (expensive fares) London, they have SEN children, they have previous debts, one parent is paying towards child maintenance from a previous relationship etc.

Another thing that clearly hasn't been taken into consideration, which affects more middle earners than higher earners, is the massive increase in the cost of living over the last couple of years e.g. My income is around 25% more than it was 2 years ago. I was comfortable then, I'm struggling from pay day to pay day now with if anything fewer outgoings. And this isn't for big ticket or optional items, this is absolute necessities like food, transport and mortgage interest. Parental income cut off for university loans I'm pretty sure hasn't increased by anywhere near that amount or even to allow for the high inflation over the last 2 years, if at all.

Yes I do understand that some very high income families may well be doing well out of this, but this government seems to believe in punishing all for the transgressions of a small minority - listen to their rhetoric around benefits for the unemployed as an example, suggesting that all unemployed are that way by choice, or the policies around disability because a very small number of people take the piss.

It's just income. Other dependents are not taken into account.

bopbey · 22/09/2023 10:34

I think you are responsible for your children until they can support themselves.

lots of adults & oaps can't support themselves

bopbey · 22/09/2023 10:36

Another thing that clearly hasn't been taken into consideration, which affects more middle earners than higher earners, is the massive increase in the cost of living over the last couple of years

and the freezing of tax bands

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