I think an 18 year old is an adult -AIBU?

[Drdoomish]

They can get married
They can live under their own steam away from parents
They can take out loans and get into exceptional debt
They can fight and die for our country
They can become an MP or councillor
They can legally get pissed in a pub
They can get their own tattoo
They can sit on a jury
They can leave education
And do all the things that adults can do...

So why, WHY, do the government use a parents income to decide how much living cost loan they will lend to an 18-24 university student?

YABU - An 18 yr old uni student is still a dependent
YANBU - An 18 yr old uni student is an adult in their own right.

It’s been the same for years, no point complaining now unless you are going to do something about it.
And they don’t look at debt, just income, it’s stupid.

Because most parents will be financially supporting their kids at uni.

I do know one case years ago, back in the days of grants, where a girl from a well off family was being refused support from her abusive dad. She wasn't entitled to a grant. This was at a time when most students didn't work, and loans were comparatively tiny. Tuition fees were paid by the government.

In the end, an aunt bailed her out.

I understood it more when students had grants - it made sense that they would be looking to reduce the overall cost of grants by means testing the family.

But now it is all loans-based with pretty high interest rates, why make them means tested?

It makes no sense to me either. Its a loan.

Unless it keeps rents lower or something because richer families would take out the full loan and top up anyway, but now they just top up to the amount of the full loan.

Why did no one complain about it when it was brought in, except Martin Lewis? What do you suggest I do?

It is stupid, yes. But we've all gone "that's the way it is"

It's ridiculous and flies in the face of everything else.

DD considered putting down that she lived with her Dad as it meant she'd get more loan (note not even grant, loan). She didn't, as I didn't raise her to lie, but how many others would. Because of this ridiculous means tested on parents income rule for an adult.

My friend married age 19. Would parents income count then?!

Dd will be my dependant until she can support herself. That's probably 4 or 5 years away as she's just started university. It's what I signed up for when I decided to have a baby. I think you are responsible for your children until they can support themselves.

Well, they are adults with limited earning capacity, but I think this should mean more loan money to anyone who wants it and not parental support.

People did complain about it, but it fell on deaf ears. I’ve had 3 go through this system.
What are you going to do about it to change it ?

We did complain about it but history is written by the winners, innit?

It does make sense when you consider that not all loans are repaid so by limiting the amount that can be borrowed the government is reducing the amount that it funds. All the time posters on here make the point that it’s a ‘graduate tax’ not a loan, so what is it?

Though if they keep changing the repayment terms and more repay the total amount then that argument goes away.

That said the system is rubbish and everyone should have access to the same amount.

Yabu because the vast majority of loving parents who have any capacity to do so at all will help their kids with whatever they can (my eldest is only 14 but I have been putting £50pm into a university fund for thr last 14 years so the money will be there when it's needed, divided appropriately).
Obviously the students from the poorest families cannot be supported by their parents in this way so need more support from the state.

Your proposal that all 18yos should be treated as independent from their parents is ridiculous. You would have to combine it with a total ban on wealthier parents giving any extra to their 18-21yos for the system to be fair. That's not going to happen is it?

I’m with you OP! 18 year olds are adults in every sense of the word, so why is parental income a factor when they take out student loans? These are loans, not grants. The parents shouldn’t be factored in full stop. They aren’t factored in if the 18 year old decides to take out a bank loan.

The other issue is the government expects the parents to make up the shortfall without making this clear to parents. Some parents can’t afford to make up the shortfall, so the student suffers. Many have part time jobs but even then aren’t earning enough to support themselves.

A married 19 year old would declare their household i.e. theirs and partner's income, so no, it wouldn't count.

I think the ridiculous thing is that live-in partner income (of the parent) is taken into account even if they moved in when said child was 17.

YABU in that you misrepresent the situation. If your child is genuinely independent - i.e. they live on their own - then they don't need to report parental income.

But your child isn't independent - presumably they come 'home' in holidays?

Whether the loans system overall is right is a different question.

Anything to enrich the rich

YANBU OP - I've often thought this. I had the dilemma I wanted to go to university but my parents - well my mum particularly had been abusive - so overall I didn't want to go

I assume it was brought in as many students don’t repay the whole amount and someone (tax payer) has to pick up the bill otherwise. So by asking for a parental contribution it reduces the cost to the tax payer.

This does need to be communicated to parents though as most find out they are expected to contribute 5/6k a year just a year beforehand when they start looking into it. As you’d think a loan is a loan and you get the whole amount. So often means some parents can’t (or some won’t, see that plenty of times) contribute and student ends up working loads of hours which makes it much harder studying for their degree. In the US parents start a college fund at birth, I think U.K. parents need to start doing it but obviously don’t know.

Even worse is when mums boyfriend’s salary is taken into account, he won’t contribute and poor student ends up working all hours to fund it. Meanwhile dad’s salary is nothing to do with it as it’s household income only.

But people did protest, and I know for sure as my name change implies.

Yes they are legally an adult but let's be honest - how many 18 year olds are actually adults in their behaviours, their views? They're still kids in most cases. More so these days. I don't think I've met an 18 year old I would consider an adult in at least the last 20 years.

Maybe what should happen is raising the age of legal adulthood to 21.

But this whole parents contributing thing is the government trying to save money. It's got nothing to do with whether they think an 18 year old is a child.

When I applied to uni, 20 years ago, I had already left home for a couple of years (moved out at 16). I had to prove that I was ‘estranged’, which included getting letters from my parents saying they had disowned me (!) and providing my tenancy agreements, wage slips etc. It wasn’t the nicest process but I did get the full loan and grant amounts after that.

Tbh, if your child lives with you and is coming home at holidays, and you’re still parenting in a fairly active way, then they are not independent and you should be contributing to their uni costs in a means tested way. The alternative isn’t a bed of roses, I promise you.

Yabu because the vast majority of loving parents who have any capacity to do so at all will help their kids with whatever they can (my eldest is only 14 but I have been putting £50pm into a university fund for thr last 14 years so the money will be there when it's needed, divided appropriately)

Without loans that money won't even cover the first years tuition and living costs

@AndIKnewYouMeantIt @Zanatdy

When I split from DDs dad a few years back, I told her she was at 0% risk of a boyfriend moving in with us as it would cost her too much.

My life on hold too for years because of the ridiculous way this loan is calculated.

It's not supposed to. It's just supposed to cover the difference between the minimum loan and the maximum loan, which we will be able to do.

But students at university are not really independent they are not fighting for their country or working full.time and paying tax most are reliant on their parents to.some degree
Big difference to someone in the armed forces or someone who.is living in a flat paying their own bills from full time employment..

I don't think many parents realise until their children get to the upper end of secondary school what the threshold is for getting a maximum loan (hint - lower than you think) and that the loan (in England) hasn't risen for years so even getting the maximum loan is not enough to live on.

With many families stretched financially there are a lot of people that can't afford to sufficiently support their children at university. Yes, the child can work as well but there's a limit to how many hours they can sensibly work without affecting their studies.

There are an awful lot of students whose parents' income means they are only eligible for minimum loan but, even with working a part time job, they don't have enough to subsist on.

University is fast becoming the preserve of the rich (who can afford it) or the very poor (who will be eligible for more bursaries etc). Those in the middle are having to make hard choices. It's becoming increasingly common to both stay in your home town for university and to take a gap year purely with the intent of saving money to fund university.

If we (as a country) value education, then it should (IMO) be more accessible to all.