AIBU to think that the Tories are utterly wicked to drop net zero?

[Upsizer]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

I think this is genuinely wicked but I guess it was inevitable with the easiness of drumming up a culture war over environmental issues to win votes. Environment is the new Brexit.

Fighting climate change is going to cost all of us thousands of pounds. So we won’t do it - to get votes.

Our children will live on an island suffering extremes of heat and fighting off refugees from uninhabitable parts of the world.

But it will save us some cash I guess.

AIBU to think this is wicked?

I forgot the pandas! In the late 1960s, my late teens, it was pandas we all wanted to save.

This gave the erroneous impression that pandas were the only species under threat, and indeed, there were probably many species that weren't under threat then, but certainly are now.

Nobody in the 60s had the kind of global view that we have now, and there were a lot fewer people and a lot more untouched natural habitat than there is now, that's for sure.

Absolutely no vision. While renovation seems to be a preferred option, remember many houses are end of life. There's no talk of recycling old homes into passive houses. There's barely any requirement to heat a house if it is built right. Even a badger knows that it's pretty much as simple as digging a hole in the ground and putting some straw in there. I see loads of new builds, concrete and PIR. Unimaginative builds, without local service infrastructure support, including transport links. And much of what is built only has a lifespan of about 90 years. Friend has a wattle and daub cottage built out of timber and mud and straw, that dates from 1600. But energy companies need to make their dollar.

Why?

Ha. Recycle if they’re really keen and ‘someone else will pay’

Hardly anyone here has spent money on it but posting about how nasty it all is. Doesn’t mean they’ll spend anything though. Because it’s thousands £ and not easy.

I don’t think we’re fucked though. Not that pessimistic yet

In 90 years house construction might be completely different. For example roofs might be built entirely of solar panels. in many ways you are better off building houses to last a finite period and then replacing them rather than trying to build ones that last forever.

Generally from what I have seen, it makes more sense to knock houses down and rebuild them in terms of energy efficiency rather than try to modify them to improve them.

The problem is that 600 year old cottages may look pretty, but in terms of energy efficiency they are shocking, and making them up to modern efficiency standards is at best far more expensive than knocking them down and rebuilding, and at worst impossible.

@GasPanic agree that permanence isn't a good measure. But mud houses aren't that bad an option. There is no talk about scrappage schemes for housing is there? I live in a victorian house, and it seems to go up in value, despite the fabric of the building slowly decaying. Truth be told, I could build a shed in the garden with better energy efficiency, probably out of recycled wood and wool. Would love to see solar tiles, green toilets etc. Was talking to the plumber about fitting heat recovery systems for shower waste, and he dismissed it as not financially worth it. Couldn't be bothered to retrain in heat pumps either.

These kind of comments are just unhelpful, the cynicism has become an end in itself. We need to talk about ways of working to redeem what is wrong. Many cultures across the world of excess and overconsumption is what is wrong and is why all the junk food is demanded, why all the expensive health care provisions are needed due to the junk food, money from the public purse that could go on public transport, subsidies for the poorest in making these changes, we need to understand that we cannot afford the negative economic impact of climate change, it is here and present and I don't believe that it is not driving change, money always drives change. Business leaders yesterday outlined the conditions they need to invest in Britain, that's how we get jobs, that's how we prosper again, it is reckless to do the Sunak uturn! Apathy has never had and never will change anything for the better!

We try and live as “Green” as possible when we can and within our means. I have no issue with the government bringing on more policies to make us more sustainable… when they are realistic

the thing that really worries me is the disproportionate effect some policies will have on people who are already struggling in the cost of living crisis. I would consider our family moderately comfortable and many of the changes we would have to make (new car, boiler etc) would be still be a stretch. We have other things that we will also need to spend money on in the next few years (a new roof, for example) as do many other people - I cant imagine how difficult it would become for people who are already struggling to feed families or keep businesses afloat

I am sure many people would like to focus on making their existence more carbon friendly… but life gets in the way and you have to make economical decisions.

so as much as I am disappointed in ways I am pleased there is potentially one less strain on families with finance issues for a while

Plus, while Holding back on these policies isn’t enforcing other people to do things which are more environmentally friendly - they aren’t stopping you from doing them either!

so people can still make these changes if they want to and can afford to

Most British people actually care about Net Zero

They do not.

If you move in middle class, leftie circles, then yes, you may well be fooled into thinking this.

In truth vast swathes of the UK population don't give a dam and roll their eyes every time they are preached to about the environment.

How odd @Goldenbear , I live on the Thames downstream from Windsor and we’ve had no flooding since 2014.

UK only has one carbon capture company in the top ten, the #1 company is Icelandic and Sweden has two companies in the top ten for innovation and research. In addition the largest carbon capture facility in the world is actually in Texas

We actually were world leading, alongside Norway, over a decade ago when CCS was in its infancy. We backed out of funding it properly and are doing it now and are behind. We are making similar mistakes again now

Sorry but is this straight from Sunak HQ, the Tories sold the nation out when we went through with Brexit, what do you think plunged many low income families in to Dickensian levels of poverty to begin with! Far from making things better, the abject levels of poverty will be increased as no businesses want to invest in a country where the government does a U-turn on the green economy objectives overnight, the car making industry has been told a lie that the UK are at the forefront of the shift to the green economy, green cars, Ford are questioning further investment as the government could just change their minds again do you not see how that impact on GDP is going to be much greater than policies that frankly are just mythical to get you to vote for them next year! Let's just hope the voters don't fall for it like they did with Brexit!

I am very pleased for you, I am not talking about Windsor Castle, other castles exist in the south east you know!

I’m not saying it’s right, I have said I am disappointed in it myself.

I’m certainly not going to be voting for the Tories.

But I do have empathy for normal people who have been plunged into poverty by the government to then be told that they will have to make expensive changes to their lives…. And then are villainised for not having already made changes they can’t afford?

some people can’t afford to look six years ahead, they are barely living day to day.

I don’t think it’s wrong to acknowledge that being able to make big changes to become greener as an individual is a privilege not everyone has.

How do you actually know this, have you done your own research? Even if that is the case it is just another example of no government leadership again maybe they should start with the education policy and work on educating the next generation on the economy and basic climate change comprehension!

The stupidity was setting the 2030 target in the first place. It has been obvious to everyone for a long time that it cannot be achieved, so why set it in the first place. Stupid because people end up cynical, knowing governments ‘don’t really mean it’ and the country is damaged because we make and then break commitments, so that we are not a safe country to invest in. Everyone loses, except Boris Johnson for a brief period of electioneering in which he got to burnish his green credentials.

No I think he was quite right. It was too ambitious by far. We are a tiny country. Why should we suffer financial hardship when other countries refuse to. Electric cars are a bonkers idea IMHO. They will go the same way as cable TV.

“The best thing about having money is it gives you choices”

The surveys all suggest that around 80% of the UK population are concerned about climate change

However not all agree as to how to solve it - many would prefer that the burden was borne more by the rich not the poor but the opposite seems to be happening

Some people were plunged into poverty by voting to leave the EU, no one forced them to, maybe if we weren't so politically apathetic and took some responsibility for our part in who governs us then we wouldn't be so bloody poor now and our standard of living wouldn't be so diminished compared to the rest of Europe.

It's hilarious isn't . I've seen lots of handwringing interviews this morning from liberal zealots and when asked not one drove an electric car or had a heat pump .
Load of rubbish the whole thing and just won't happen . What on earth difference will it make the British virtue signaling about their 1% contribution being reduced when China , India etc spew out what they do . No people won't ever reduce their reliance on what they produce, we are now to materialistic .

How many would vote yes to spending thousands on a heat pump as required I wonder

There was a recent thread on legislation on heat pumps. It wasn’t popular with posters

Pretty much the opposite of this one

The vague, abstract net zero fix climate change is a yes - I mean why not it sounds pretty nice and I don’t have to do much except say green sounding things online or whatever

And the here’s your 10k bill upgrade which you must do. Different story

We need to talk about ways of working to redeem what is wrong I’d agree with that up to a point, but talking is all that is happening. The vast majority of us blaming various politicians or saying we should be doing this or that, are not actually doing anything significant to make the necessary changes in our own lives. Like having a strong opinion on the importance of changing our ways is sufficient and replaces the need to make any of the uncomfortable changes to their lives that we’d all need to do to make a difference.

You might interpret my view as apathy but you’d be massively missing the point. We’ve been talking about climate change for generations. More talking is not going to achieve anything. We already know what the problems are and what we need to do to change things. The problem is that none of us want to make those changes because our lives are comfortable and convenient and (relatively) cheap, or because we’re making an awful lot of money from producing stuff.

You might think my view isn’t helpful but I’m not really seeing what your view is achieving, or how it is any more helpful than mine, other than helping you feel better.

Haranguing people because they haven’t replaced boilers or cars that are still in their working lifetime is misunderstanding the issues. The point is for the government to act now to ensure that industry gets the infrastructure in place so that these changes are the easy, sensible and accessible choices. Pilot projects need to be underway now, the way we invest and tax energy companies needs to change.

This thread is so SAD. Our children’s lives will be so much harder than ours and people don’t seem to care.