AIBU to think that the Tories are utterly wicked to drop net zero?

[Upsizer]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

I think this is genuinely wicked but I guess it was inevitable with the easiness of drumming up a culture war over environmental issues to win votes. Environment is the new Brexit.

Fighting climate change is going to cost all of us thousands of pounds. So we won’t do it - to get votes.

Our children will live on an island suffering extremes of heat and fighting off refugees from uninhabitable parts of the world.

But it will save us some cash I guess.

AIBU to think this is wicked?

Glad you have the time

The UK is a tiny island and what we do does contribute to global warming.

But whatever changes we make are literally a drop in the ocean and pretty insignificant as long as the US, China , India and Russia carry on pumping out emissions.

That's not to say we shouldn't try but get a sense of perspective and a timescale.

It's a significant issue that a large majority, mainly made up of boomers and gen Xers, are resistant to change. This can be seen in the strong opposition to policies like 15-minute cities and ULEZ. Ironically, these policies aim to undo much of the progress made in the past 50 years. Travel has become convenient and inexpensive, but it is causing environmental harm.
It's a political minefield.

Can i ask where people think how all the uks energy needs are going to be met? Only about 7% of heating requirements comes from renewables let alone road fuels

Well it’s currently 37% as of right now this second, according to national grid, but it’s often up to 70% or so.

We need to be diverting all of the earth’s resources to this - we are going to have no choice in the long run.

Where will the money come from once we have millions of refugees trying to escape into Northern Europe because vast swathes of the earth is uninhabitable and there are climate wars decimating half the planet?

Have you not seen the pictures from Lampedusa?

No thats of ELECTRICITY not energy what about all the GAS and OIL we use???

So true. That will be Britain eventually unless - what? We start putting mines in the channel?

It hasn’t been dropped! A more realistic time frame is to be applied to give technology time to catch up. Also wealthy people can afford expensive new cars, upgrades to their heating etc. this gives time so that the impact on the less well off is lessened (hopefully).

I'm with you all the way OP, I've voted Tory in the past - never again after this

Having said that I can see Labour now getting in a spin and jumping on board

All the 'but taxes would have to be increased'. I'm sorry but I see a huge proportion of people really struggling to eat and heat their houses but I also see people still with vast amounts of disposable income they're spending on lavish holidays, clothes from ASOS, endless Deliveroos - all discretionary lifestyle choices which they now think of as a right rather than a privilege. They could afford to pay more tax and should to help people in real difficulty and to invest in ways of tackling climate change

I am very sad and - like you - think we're doomed because of the divide and rule policies governments are implementing

The phasing out of coal fires and the emphasis on insulation has led to badly ventilated dwellings, often with an associated massive mould problem.

I was in Santorini in 1980, and the locals were in despair because all the American backpackers thought nothing of taking a shower whenever they felt like it, using up the island's precious store of water.

"gen Xers" really? I'm on the cusp of millennial/generation Xers and i think that as many of us have teenagers- generation Z ers, we have more common ground on the issue of the environment not less. In fact, my 16 year old DS was taught by mainly millennial aged teachers at secondary school and would definitely argue that they are the most self - obsessed generation, they literally invented the selfie, thinking about issues beyond themselves, like politics, like the environment does not seem to feature in their world as much as it did for us. Many Generation Xers were teenagers in the 90s recession and that has formed our outlook which admittedly is often cynical and bleak but is also realistic. X ers were the first to dismiss the corporate, to not sell out, to be anti-capitalist, greedy materialism was what many 90s teenagers had disdain for, it's what defines that generation and is represented in the culture of that time, the music, the fashion, the non conformity, it is simply ridiculous to say millennials were the pioneers of radical thinking on environmental issues as it simply isn't true! That said, generation Xers are typically weary cynics and they would not even recognise these pointless clichéd descriptions of the generations. My DH is actually an old millennial and believe me our outlooks are the same on these issues, mostly due to the fact that we cannot be fatalists when it comes to the environment as we have a moral duty to our children to try and keep trying! My Dad is outraged by the Tories u turn on this and my Mum is the most sustainable person I know, both Boomers and not actually living up to these stupid stereotypes!

This is clearly a political move but for what votes, the Brexiters presumably. With this U turn they are definitely gambling with the green Tory vote - wealthy middle aged people that are green, have the money for the electric cars and want to see environmental regulation not less of it!

I haven’t read the full thread, but I am concerned about watering down/scrapping commitments to the environment and climate action. I do not support this and will not vote for it, however it seems obvious the Tories are reacting to anger over the ULEZ scheme and recent furore about driving 20mph in Wales. This is a wedge issue for them and so they will campaign on it. As well as playing to the WEF/conspiracy theory crowd about eating meat and air travel.

That being said, cars are essential to people’s lives and we do need to be realistic about how people are going to get around, get to work and generally live their lives in the longer term. I don’t think there is a chance in hell that we will be ready to ban new petrol and diesel cars by 2030. Most ordinary working people cannot afford an electric car. I can’t imagine they will by 2030 either the way the economy is going.

We haven't got those years though, to think we are not going to experience economic difficulties when some of us will have our houses flooded, or food is even more expensive due to the impact of climate change on crops and what can actually grow here! It is so short sighted. I have been working in a town in the south east that is near a river and even over the last 5 years the flooding patterns have dramatically increased, to the point now where I know that if it is heavy rain the roads in and out all become flooded, it has a castle so it is almost akin to a moat with the outcome. 5 years ago the flooding was few and far between, now it is every time there is a heavy downfall! To think these decisions are not going to have an impact is really not very bright.

Political parties are always looking for ways to differentiate themselves against the opposition.

Before we had Labour and Tories saying effectively the same thing. Now we have a choice.

The bottom line is a lot of people want net zero. But if you ask them who is going to pay for it, as usual it is always "the rich" or "someone else".

I am pro net zero, but I understand that choice is going to cost me money and have a significant lifestyle impact. It's not possible to have net zero without people having to spend thousands on upgraded homes, increased energy bills, new cars and more expensive holidays.

We are now getting to the point where in order to achieve net zero it is going to cost people real money. So it is no longer about talking the talk and putting yogurt pots in the rubbish and feeling you are saving the planet. It is about spending thousands more on new boilers, new cars and more expensive holidays. The electorate now has a choice as it whether it wants to be forced to do that, or put off net zero with the consequences that may have for the planet and future generations.

We are now getting to the point where in order to achieve net zero it is going to cost people real money.

I agree with this. Up until now it’s been a bit of recycling or whatever, pretty easy.

‘Net zero’ sounds nice but the reality of achieving it is actually forking out fairly hefty chunks of money. Not someone else’s money but our own.

Net zero hasn’t been dropped though as per op’s title

2050 is still there

But at a cost most people will be unable to afford when living in an older building? It isn't as simple as saying you just turn the dial, yes you may be able to keep just as warm as you would have with a gas boiler but the ASHP will be using expensive electricity to make up for it being an old building and that is where the unreasonable cost element comes in

I am not a fan of the Tories but is anyone that is up in arms about this actually giving a thought to where a lot of our electricity comes from? It isn't all renewable sources...(just looked up the stats- 42.3% of electricity in the UK in 2022 came from fossil fuels). Now would I rather i used them directly rather than having them transferred into electricity first? Is there a 'loss' in the conversion process which actually makes it greener for me to just run my gas boiler than having an electric boiler? If more people convert to more electricity usage sooner are we already at our limit of renewable energy sources for the national grid at the moment and this would just lead to more fossil fuels being used? (I don't know the answers to these questions, I am just pondering)

I don't agree that because the UK only accounts for 1% of global carbon emissions we should sit back and do nothing, as a previous poster said, there will be many countries contributing 1%, if they all sit back and do nothing the impact becomes bigger- every little helps!

However I think there we are very far from having the technology and infrastructure to make these 'green' initiatives work and that is what we should be focusing on

Exactly, the government's own office for budget responsibility have estimated that the cost of pursuing net zero would be c6% of GDP. The cost of not pursuing net zero is estimated at 13% of GDP.

All this announcement has done is kick the can further down the road giving us less time to make the required changes, which will no doubt mean that they'll be more extreme and more expensive when they are actually put in place.

It's also interesting to see the speakers office has been scathing of the way this announcement has been handled, going as far as to call it a break from way business is expected to be carried out by a government.

Although to counter, I've also seen it said that half the things Rishi has announced as being rolled back weren't even actual policy, so is it all a bit of smoke and mirrors to dupe the gullible public a la the "stop the boats" skit?

I think they’re utter fucking heroes to drop net zero.

Some Boomers have been trying to warn everyone since they were in their 20s. Friends of the Earth, Silent Spring, Small is beautiful, our alternative lifestyles. In the 1970s Douglas Adams satirised our commercialised world, and spent the latter part of him life focussing on wildlife conservation

I live in Co. Durham and have done for 53 years. The days of huge winter snowfall have long gone! We Boomers have lived long enough to have noticed the change in the weather over the past 60-70 years.

The Ozone Hole was noted and steps taken to ban certain refridgeration chemicals. It did work, but is becoming a problem again, IIUC.

As to wildlife conservation, we started with the whales, and have been pretty successful. Polar bears were just there, and everyone took it for granted that they always would be there.

Most British people actually care about Net Zero 😂 That’s laughable. People might enjoy taking the moral high ground because they sort their recycling, use bamboo toothbrushes and pour scorn on those who buy ‘plastic tat’ but when it comes down to spending serious cash to update their boilers or install solar panels on their roof or replacing their cars with bikes, or not having kids, not going abroad, not eating meat, Net Zero falls down the list of priorities very quickly.

We’re fucked. There are not enough governments in the world who care enough to make a difference.

As Sunak said they haven't dropped Net Zero. It was mostly hot air, that seemingly managed to dupe yet more thick idiots who will buy any party line they are offered.

2023 where people desire some status quo of yore, without the pot holes, but fail to remember that this country wasn't and hasn't been working since way before the pandemic.

This really.

The problem is for a ASHP to work as well as a boiler, in an older house you need to upgrade the radiators.

Also, because they are output rated a lot lower than gas boilers you often need to insulate your house better too. Ironically, insulating your house better would work just as well for gas as it does for ASHP - we would get closer to net zero by using much less gas.

The problem is the policy is rubbish. Rather than giving people grants to change gas boilers to ASHP, they should be giving out grants to make houses "heat pump ready" - ie upgrading insulation.

That way, people would continue to benefit from reduced gas bills/usage, while getting the money ready to make the conversion to an ASHP at some point in the future.

At the moment the cost of the ASHP+insulation+radiator upgrade is too much for a lot of people in older houses and is much more expensive than a boiler replacement.