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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that the Tories are utterly wicked to drop net zero?

578 replies

Upsizer · 19/09/2023 21:50

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

I think this is genuinely wicked but I guess it was inevitable with the easiness of drumming up a culture war over environmental issues to win votes. Environment is the new Brexit.

Fighting climate change is going to cost all of us thousands of pounds. So we won’t do it - to get votes.

Our children will live on an island suffering extremes of heat and fighting off refugees from uninhabitable parts of the world.

But it will save us some cash I guess.

AIBU to think this is wicked?

Sunak planning to drop net zero policies in pre-election challenge to Labour

Plans set to be announced on Friday could include delaying ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

OP posts:
Thread gallery
26
EasternStandard · 23/09/2023 08:50

cakeorwine · 23/09/2023 08:47

Labour missed a trick.
They should have said a few weeks ago that they would rethink boilers / cars / heat pumps and the time scales because of the cost / impracticalities.

Then seen what the Conservatives would have done.

Maybe

Although they tried with the ‘green’ in tagline so might be an issue

Presumably looking to Aus Labor a while ago

QuickDraining · 23/09/2023 10:28

Still interesting to read the fall out of this. So in short, targets set by the current government were unattainable, so they u-turned. But rather than sensibly admit that the UK has no way of meeting those targets, regretfully apologising and setting out better strategy, they have tried to somehow politicise this as some weird anti-environmentalist coup. And people are buying this shit!

Some sensible feedback heard on the radio by people in the know, and on here, like the fact that the grid isn't ready for the amount of electrification yet.

'They' were never going to come around and rip out your boiler. Or take your car away. But it will be interesting to forecast/gauge oil and fuel over the coming years.

I still remember some chap on another forum, who had put panels on his house, had enough electricity to run his house and fill his car, and still had leftovers to sell back to the grid. He was laughing.

And as for the Tories trying to paint this as: we have more pressing issues like getting inflation down, after they sank the economy, it's pretty laughable. Sure there's a whole litany of other issues and problems, and you can whatabout any or all of them. But a progressive government should look at the long term sustainability of all. And hopefully look beyond just focusing on our small islands needs.

Sunak comes out with bollocks like: the NHS isn't working because Doctors are striking.

Ilmecourtsurleharicot · 23/09/2023 13:08

I’m so fucking angry, just seen this- what absolute scumbags. The Tories couldn’t give a fuck about normal people and the horrific costs of living and our energy bills. It’s disgusting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66900999

Cavity wall insulation being installed

Rishi Sunak scraps home energy efficiency taskforce

The group set up to drive home insulation and boiler upgrades is a casualty of the PM's green rethink.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66900999

Ilmecourtsurleharicot · 23/09/2023 21:36

I’m happy that this scandalous story is top story on BBC New website and even backbench Tories are being quoted saying they thought that Sunak wanted to do something about ordinary people’s cost of living

Ilmecourtsurleharicot · 23/09/2023 21:41

The article says:

Energy analyst Jess Ralston at non-profit group the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit told the BBC: "
This appears to be yet another U-turn that could lead to higher bills just like the prime minister's decision last week to roll back landlord insulation standards that could leave renters paying an additional £8bn on energy bills."
She added: "gas boiler and petrol car phase-out weren't set to have any impact on cost of living for struggling families for more than a decade".

OK so an independent expert confirms that this is pure Tory propaganda dog whistle. I honestly don’t know how they sleep at night Sad

Alexandra2001 · 24/09/2023 08:22

cakeorwine · 23/09/2023 08:47

Labour missed a trick.
They should have said a few weeks ago that they would rethink boilers / cars / heat pumps and the time scales because of the cost / impracticalities.

Then seen what the Conservatives would have done.

The costs and impracticalities are only going to increase and get harder to achieve.
Which private company is going to roll out charging points when they know the 2035 target could and probably will move again?

Meanwhile energy costs are only going to increase for consumers.

The £7.5k grant is meaningless, very few will use it as Sunak has removed the incentive to replace an oil boiler with a HP... along with the jobs and skills that will go as companies leave this market (as they did with Solar when the Tories changed the feed in tariffs to almost zero)

I do however think its good that the changes to landlords EPC requirements have been dropped but we shouldn't forget which party and current PM supported this and many other "Green" changes as Chancellor.

cakeorwine · 24/09/2023 08:31

2035 is only 5 years after 2030.

So what's his plan?
How will he get people to pay for heat pumps and any extra insulation needed?
Will hydrogen boilers be a thing?
Has he got a plan for developing infrastructure for charging?
How will he improve home efficiency to reduce people's bills.

2035 is 12 years away. Which is not a long time in the future.

So maybe he should be challenged as well.

Alexandra2001 · 24/09/2023 08:45

@cakeorwine He isn't bothered about 2035 or even 2030... its all about buying votes for 2024...... hence the changes to "green" policies (which he believes are popular....) & triple lock to stay, inheritance tax scrapped... all paid for by slashing HS2.
Doubtless we will also see a tax cut too.

Will all appeal to his parties base, whether that base is large enough to win an election? who knows but i do think the result will be based on whether people can get a dentist, GP appt, an operation, not smash their car up on a pot hole.... not on a heat pump or an EV.

IslaWinds · 24/09/2023 09:58

Ilmecourtsurleharicot · 23/09/2023 21:41

The article says:

Energy analyst Jess Ralston at non-profit group the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit told the BBC: "
This appears to be yet another U-turn that could lead to higher bills just like the prime minister's decision last week to roll back landlord insulation standards that could leave renters paying an additional £8bn on energy bills."
She added: "gas boiler and petrol car phase-out weren't set to have any impact on cost of living for struggling families for more than a decade".

OK so an independent expert confirms that this is pure Tory propaganda dog whistle. I honestly don’t know how they sleep at night Sad

It doesn’t prove that at all. Not when we have economic analysts saying it will take until 2070 alone for the country to recover from Brexit (unless we do the smart thing and rejoin the EU). The U.K. is currently in a recession with a cost of living crisis, and the number of above minimum wage jobs available are at a fifteen year low. There is no possible way that all the struggling families will recover enough to begin to buy an electric vehicle and heat pump starting in 2030. That is only 7yrs away.

EasternStandard · 24/09/2023 10:05

IslaWinds · 24/09/2023 09:58

It doesn’t prove that at all. Not when we have economic analysts saying it will take until 2070 alone for the country to recover from Brexit (unless we do the smart thing and rejoin the EU). The U.K. is currently in a recession with a cost of living crisis, and the number of above minimum wage jobs available are at a fifteen year low. There is no possible way that all the struggling families will recover enough to begin to buy an electric vehicle and heat pump starting in 2030. That is only 7yrs away.

I agree on costs being too difficult although my views on the EU have also been reshaped by climate crisis

Watching what’s happening with Lampedusa, Tunisia and how individual EU countries are responding my view isn’t the same as 2016

I’m not sold either way but would need more on it all

IslaWinds · 24/09/2023 10:12

companies leave this market (as they did with Solar when the Tories changed the feed in tariffs to almost zero)

I haven’t seen solar companies leave the market so much as the usual market forces that see many small companies become a few larger companies through competition. The feed in tariffs are not so bad. I get 50% of the going KWH rate as my feed in tariff. However the way my solar panels are set up is that everything in the house pulls from the solar panels first, and it’s only extra energy I am not using that gets fed in for the feed in tariff. So I benefit in that most of the KWHs my panels produce, I make sure to use, for free.

IslaWinds · 24/09/2023 10:18

EasternStandard · 24/09/2023 10:05

I agree on costs being too difficult although my views on the EU have also been reshaped by climate crisis

Watching what’s happening with Lampedusa, Tunisia and how individual EU countries are responding my view isn’t the same as 2016

I’m not sold either way but would need more on it all

It is a good point that two key members of the EU have been beset by right wing extremism as of late in France and Italy especially. Which has led to the poor treatment of refugees.

EasternStandard · 24/09/2023 10:29

IslaWinds · 24/09/2023 10:18

It is a good point that two key members of the EU have been beset by right wing extremism as of late in France and Italy especially. Which has led to the poor treatment of refugees.

I see it the other way around. It’s the increased people movement pressures that will cause (and has caused) a shift to the right.

More people and governments will say no. Whereas they previously said yes

It’s going to become increasingly strained, unless international law changes I suppose

It’s made me rethink what is best as it’s going to become harder not easier

IslaWinds · 24/09/2023 10:34

EasternStandard · 24/09/2023 10:29

I see it the other way around. It’s the increased people movement pressures that will cause (and has caused) a shift to the right.

More people and governments will say no. Whereas they previously said yes

It’s going to become increasingly strained, unless international law changes I suppose

It’s made me rethink what is best as it’s going to become harder not easier

That’s a good point as I agree with you that pressures push countries to the right. I am starting to wonder if it isn’t one of those feedback loops.

Right wing says no. Refugees get let in anyway because country is mostly left, but due to right wing influence the refugees then get blamed for all the ills of society. Over time as pressures increase and especially if other societal ills get worse (ie NHS), more and more people start to agree with the blame the immigrants right wing propaganda and shift towards the right.

EasternStandard · 24/09/2023 10:44

IslaWinds · 24/09/2023 10:34

That’s a good point as I agree with you that pressures push countries to the right. I am starting to wonder if it isn’t one of those feedback loops.

Right wing says no. Refugees get let in anyway because country is mostly left, but due to right wing influence the refugees then get blamed for all the ills of society. Over time as pressures increase and especially if other societal ills get worse (ie NHS), more and more people start to agree with the blame the immigrants right wing propaganda and shift towards the right.

Could be. There was a political analyst academic who talked about Putin using people movement as an extra tool in war. Currently Tunisia to EU is showing impact of that

The aim is to further destabilise the EU. It’s working already

That gave me a different perspective to the more mn one.

I think the idea of low or no strain is increasingly unlikely

IslaWinds · 24/09/2023 10:58

EasternStandard · 24/09/2023 10:44

Could be. There was a political analyst academic who talked about Putin using people movement as an extra tool in war. Currently Tunisia to EU is showing impact of that

The aim is to further destabilise the EU. It’s working already

That gave me a different perspective to the more mn one.

I think the idea of low or no strain is increasingly unlikely

Yes, I think we may have read the similar analysis regarding Putins tactics in the current war in Ukraine. Was it the one that covered not only the pressure of refugees (mass migration of people) but also the faked gas pipe isn’t working cutting off gas supply to Europe- which has meant many governments having to spend billions to keep their people warm in winter, and how his air forces are probing airspace defences of the U.K., Scandinavia and Eastern EU so we are spending billions on extra air patrols.

Like the time he “accidentally” did a missile attack on Poland and then said, ooops I was aiming for Ukraine- so more spending on patrolling and defending borders. How Putin was happy about the boycotts of businesses closing up shop because that means no Russian customer money towards business profits then being taxed to European governments.

There was a whole list of things that added up to how Putin is trying to make us too skint to fight. Sort of a pre-war weaken your opponent by making them poorer tactic.

The war is also causing so much CO2 to go in the atmosphere as well! All that is on Putins head.

EasternStandard · 24/09/2023 11:13

IslaWinds · 24/09/2023 10:58

Yes, I think we may have read the similar analysis regarding Putins tactics in the current war in Ukraine. Was it the one that covered not only the pressure of refugees (mass migration of people) but also the faked gas pipe isn’t working cutting off gas supply to Europe- which has meant many governments having to spend billions to keep their people warm in winter, and how his air forces are probing airspace defences of the U.K., Scandinavia and Eastern EU so we are spending billions on extra air patrols.

Like the time he “accidentally” did a missile attack on Poland and then said, ooops I was aiming for Ukraine- so more spending on patrolling and defending borders. How Putin was happy about the boycotts of businesses closing up shop because that means no Russian customer money towards business profits then being taxed to European governments.

There was a whole list of things that added up to how Putin is trying to make us too skint to fight. Sort of a pre-war weaken your opponent by making them poorer tactic.

The war is also causing so much CO2 to go in the atmosphere as well! All that is on Putins head.

It was just the people movement part (on the radio) but the rest sounds right too

France and Germany have recently said no, which is a switch

Plus EU is funding Tunisia with millions to try and put up barriers, so far numbers keep increasing

Alexandra2001 · 24/09/2023 12:22

The EU hasn't sent a single Euro to Tunisia yet, they have to ratify an IMF bailout first.
Its also sensible to prevent Tunisia's economy going the same way as Libya's (following Cameron's terrible intervention) we don't want 2 failed states in North Africa.

The rise of the RN in France has far more to do with Macrons anti strike legislation and increases in pension age than migrants & Meloni is in a coalition, i wonder what the UKs parliament would look like if we had PR ?

The problem is the right wing parties in Europe, including the Tories all say "we'll stop the boats" and some folk support that but unless force is used, the boats will keep coming into Europe and hence into the UK too.

I don't really think its lefties stopping European govt's machine gunning boats.

EasternStandard · 24/09/2023 12:47

Money outside IMF is being sent

Sept 22
The EU executive on Friday announced it will disburse €127 million to the North African state — although the bulk of that funding originates in ongoing programs that predate the migration pact sealed in July.

Alexandra2001 · 24/09/2023 13:46

The EU money is dependent on the Tunisians accepting an IMF bailout, the 2 things are separate funding.

Can't really blame the EU/Tunisia deal for not yet reducing migration... its not yet started.

I see Trump now supports your man, calling Sunak "smart" for dropping these green targets (the thread is about) and that he has seen through the Climate Change "Green Hoax"

With a friend like that, does he need any enemies?

anniegun · 24/09/2023 13:51

They promised everything , delivered nothing and then claim to be on the side of ordinary people. It was when he bragged about cancelling policies that never existed I got really angry. The Tories just want to enrich themselves and their donors and couldn't give a shit about the planet or the country

PeachesoutinGeorgia · 24/09/2023 13:51

Normal people just can’t afford it at the moment 😩

EasternStandard · 24/09/2023 13:58

Alexandra2001 · 24/09/2023 13:46

The EU money is dependent on the Tunisians accepting an IMF bailout, the 2 things are separate funding.

Can't really blame the EU/Tunisia deal for not yet reducing migration... its not yet started.

I see Trump now supports your man, calling Sunak "smart" for dropping these green targets (the thread is about) and that he has seen through the Climate Change "Green Hoax"

With a friend like that, does he need any enemies?

’your man’ 😂 You do write guff at times.

Why is the 127m dependent on IMF there is no mention of that, can you link? All press states funds will be released

Pisonero added that, of the 127 million euros to be “swiftly” disbursed, 42 million euros ($44.7m) came under the migration aspect of the July deal. The rest was for previously agreed programmes, with 60 million euros ($63.9m) to help Tunisia with its budget.

As much as there’s handwringing over five years here on mn Trump is the one to sweat over if he gets in and changes course.

Meanwhile ‘your man’ looks increasingly hopeless asking for dud returns deals, with a fat chance you’re deluded response

Alexandra2001 · 24/09/2023 14:26

You re a little bit riled today aren't you? but there is no need to be so rude is there?

You re a tory (yet to see you ever criticise them) you back Sunak.... hence my throw away remark.... i don't back Labour, let alone Starmer, to far to the right for me... as i ve said on a few occasions before.

Even your own post says monies not yet released... (from the current deal on migration) which is exactly what i said......

Took me 30seconds to find the EU's 900m euros is dependent on acceptance of the 1.9bn IMF bailout.

You re not one to be crossed thats for sure.

EasternStandard · 24/09/2023 14:44

Alexandra2001 · 24/09/2023 14:26

You re a little bit riled today aren't you? but there is no need to be so rude is there?

You re a tory (yet to see you ever criticise them) you back Sunak.... hence my throw away remark.... i don't back Labour, let alone Starmer, to far to the right for me... as i ve said on a few occasions before.

Even your own post says monies not yet released... (from the current deal on migration) which is exactly what i said......

Took me 30seconds to find the EU's 900m euros is dependent on acceptance of the 1.9bn IMF bailout.

You re not one to be crossed thats for sure.

Nope not a ‘Tory’

That’s your take. I don’t have to agree with your take

You are the least important when it comes to how I see my political views

And yes I agree with pp who pointed out you are snide.

You can’t see it though so whilst I’d love not to engage you track the same posters down on every thread

Feel free to not continue if you find me rude. I’d love that 🙌

No link on the funds being dependent on IMF. Funny that

Go into hiatus with my posts. I’ll return the favour.

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