AIBU to think that the Tories are utterly wicked to drop net zero?

[Upsizer]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

I think this is genuinely wicked but I guess it was inevitable with the easiness of drumming up a culture war over environmental issues to win votes. Environment is the new Brexit.

Fighting climate change is going to cost all of us thousands of pounds. So we won’t do it - to get votes.

Our children will live on an island suffering extremes of heat and fighting off refugees from uninhabitable parts of the world.

But it will save us some cash I guess.

AIBU to think this is wicked?

Bills are hundreds higher because cameron ditched "green crap".
Tenants' bills are higher because their landlords won't insulate their homes. We have a terrible record of insulation as a country. Sunak just pushed the requirements to insulate and bring bills down back
We are increasing our dependency on gas and petrol at a time when we need to do the opposite because of a rise in prices.
Yes heat pumps are expensive I agree but new smaller affordable ones are in the works right now.
One way to make any item cheaper is for it to be more mass produced rather than a niche a higher run of parts brings costs down but Sunak just screwed energy and car businesses with this announcement. How does affecting British business and competitivity help the economy

Not doing net zero will cost a lot more than net zero . I don't think some people get this.

Those against net zero in the Tory party are largely funded by fossil fuel companies.

You think they have your interests at heart? Seriously?!

This announcement doesn't help us. They want you to think it does but it doesn't

The Guardian is having a meltdown over the changes announced today. Much like this place. Fun to watch.

Totally depressing news but unsurprising from the Tories. If a policy doesn’t mean they can steal more money from us and cream more off from their cronies they’re not interested. Probably already built their climate controlled bat caves ready for the apocalypse, lined with stolen funds and watered with the tears of the poor.

I think it's wicked to ban people's means of heating their homes without an effective government funded replacement.

Apart from the target date for cars, Labour's policies are remarkably similar to the Tory policies as announced yesterday, including the same holes where the policy is unknown.

Tory policies announced yesterday:
Net Zero target 2050 (unchanged)
Petrol & diesel cars until 2035 (same as France, Germany)
Replace gas boilers at the end of boiler's life (ie. a ban on new gas boilers but no forced replacement)
No new taxes on flying
No new taxes on eating meat
Planned energy efficiency targets for landlords scrapped (no new policy announced)
Planned insulation requirements for homeowners (at homeowners expense) scrapped (no new policy announced)

Labour policies:
Net Zero 2050 (same)
Petrol & diesel cars 2030
Replace gas boilers at the end of boiler's life (newly revised policy the same as Tories)
No new taxes on flying (implied - but no actual policy)
No new taxes on eating meat (implied - but no actual policy)
Energy efficiency targets for landlords (no policy yet)
Insulation requirements for homeowners (no policy yet, but implied it will not be at homeowners expense)

They haven't dropped net zero.

I think we should get the most life out of our petrol and diesel vehicles, rather than rushing to replace everything. We need time to continue to develop techniques, and work out where and how the raw materials for the change will come from, and how we can plan the most effective strategy, one that can be amended as we learn more. It costs a great deal of emissions and resources to replace the vehicles of an entire population.

We need to change our lifestyle - even not accepting a receipt in a shop saves a tiny amount in electricity, the special paper, and the spark/heat printer that prints a piece of paper that will just get screwed up in a handbag.

My local Sainsbury's prefers you to buy loose rolls and doughnuts and croissants in a paper bag. No need to take a new one each time. Just keep using the old one to put your rolls etc in, until it wears out.

The other method is to try and pretend our current lifestyles can continue unchanged in a massive existential crisis, for example we will need to abandon the idea that every adult in a household should own a car as a matter of course, We will need to get used to walking in the rain, not jumping in the car.

I don't hold out much hope for the second method.

Net zero is dumb as fuck and delaying it is the only sensible thing the Tories have done in a long long time.

They haven't delayed it. Only the petrol and diesel cars for 5 years. Which will not make any difference to anything, except that if they want the infrastructure by 2030 they now can take the foot of the gas re innovation. Its just electioneering. We don't need new cars every 3 years.

To be fair, it's a absolute genius move from Rishi Sunak ....I think the conservative party could win another term off the back of this. Vast majority of the population are sick to the back teeth of being preached to about the environment

Cynical Government.

Have a plan. Keep talking about that plan. It's good for the environment.
Get the opposition on board to get consensus.
Then change the plan.
No doubt criticise the opposition for wanting to do what they were going to do.

Then also criticise the opposition for changing their views on other things.

Also say they are going to stop things that were never going to happen anyway and get praise for it - e.g. 7 bins, meat tax

The one good think he has done today is to increase the grant available for those who want a heat pump to £7,500.

My mother in law got a heatpump. She loves it, but if you can afford a heatpump, the £7500 grant is nothing but a nice little bonus. Are they increasing grants to people to insulate their homes, which would be far cheaper and more widespread.
Also, they need to increase the dubsidies to green energy and drop them for oil and gas industries, who are making enough profits to not need grants.

Idk but if Labour get in I doubt people will be as gracious as this thread when hit with the actual costs as they have to get the heat pump etc

Far easier when it’s an abstract idea of ‘net zero’ than stump up money time

@Welliouta yes totally agree
Reading the replies here is so depressing
I am new to this site and thought initially I was amongst sensible people at last
This thread just makes me even more depressed about the world than ever
Agree this policy change was on the cards since Uxbridge
This government would sell their own grandmothers for votes because staying in power is all they care about so they can make money for themselves and their cronies
They have the public blinded by poverty the tories have created and then use diversionary tactics of blaming desperate immigrants, disabled people on benefits, nurses and doctors at the end of their tethers striking for fair pay and now the measures they themselves had previously agreed to try to slow the death of our planet for all our problems
And sections of the public are actually buying this
It all beggars belief and destroys any faith I had in basic human decency
Last night I watched a documentary about the rise of the nazis
So many similarities on how they came to power and blamed all societies woes on the jews and look how that turned out
I wonder if this country would have taken any jews escaping from Germany if this happened today?
Or maybe like refugees from Ukraine that might be ok because they are white and not brown like the people risking their lives on small boats?
Our politics are an international joke thanks to Brexit and then Johnson/ liz truss etc and now this latest bollocks will leave the rest of the thinking world in no doubt that the UK is up shit street without a paddle
I am now ashamed to be British

You don’t change the goal posts just because you are shit at football. You get better at football!

Rather than changing the goal posts, they should be doubling efforts. We might not meet the targets but at least we will be closer to them.

I think it's morally reprehensible. They know they would stuggle to do it, (or more realistically fuck it up completely like everything else) so they aren't even going to try.
But you could apply that to almost every area of life the government are involved in.

And the argument that it's 'for democracy' is such bullshit. The polls don't show a strong bent towards not bothering about the environment. Or not the ones I've seen.

… or we could do things really well, have new careers in thriving sectors, local investment in green heating schemes, better public infrastructure based around active travel - and better insulated, less draughty houses…?

No, it is just realistic as totally unsustainable and unachievable.
There are other, more pressing, issues that need to be addressed.

Even under the Tories what happened to the UK taking pride in environmental leadership?

Cameron posing on his arctic skidoo, May signed us up for net zero (thank you), Johnson who er cycled to work, Truss who just wanted to blow up the economy. Sunak inherited national disgust and rage over literally shitty beaches and waterways because of Tory privatisation of the water supply, and has not even dealt with that issue before saying he’s ‘on the side of motorists’ and now scrapping net zero targets. It’s absolutely shameful and given many of us have kids I can’t bear to think about what kind of world we are giving to them. Environmental collapse is going to be beyond horrific.

It’ll still cost people money they’ll find hard to get to upgrade their house

I think people are missing this part. But it will feel real enough when it happens I’m sure

No necessarily: when I last needed home insulation it was all covered under a green grant (about 20 years ago under labour)

Are you for it because you think others will pay on form of tax payer funding?

Every house at £15k heat pump plus insulation £10k plus

That grant below is high already at £7500. If pp on the thread are keen on a new one it’s a big chunk off. Would you do it now?

We are dependent on the earth's systems. They are not dependent on us. We'll have hell to pay for ignoring this soon enough.

No necessarily: when I last needed home insulation it was all covered under a green grant (about 20 years ago under labour)

Errrr...you do understand that the government (whichever is in power) has no money. It all comes from the tax payer.

So your 'green grant' was being paid by working people whose taxes were collected.

or we could do things really well, have new careers in thriving sectors, local investment in green heating schemes, better public infrastructure based around active travel - and better insulated, less draughty houses…?

Let's take each of your ideas one by one @Upsizer

Could you give a breakdown of where the money will come from for these, without increasing taxation which is already higher than it's ever been?

Let's start with creating new careers. Who are the companies behind this and how will they raise investment?

Where is the money going to come from for green heating schemes? (Local councils can't even mend potholes.)

Active travel?

More insulation?

Look forward to your economic model on all of the above.

Thanks you.