AIBU to think that the Tories are utterly wicked to drop net zero?

[Upsizer]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

I think this is genuinely wicked but I guess it was inevitable with the easiness of drumming up a culture war over environmental issues to win votes. Environment is the new Brexit.

Fighting climate change is going to cost all of us thousands of pounds. So we won’t do it - to get votes.

Our children will live on an island suffering extremes of heat and fighting off refugees from uninhabitable parts of the world.

But it will save us some cash I guess.

AIBU to think this is wicked?

This nails it!

I never said it was earmarked for joe bloggs. The finance will be available for the things you've mentioned as well as for other businesses such as banks to decarbonise their investments (including housing). It will also be available to governments to decarbonise their cities and towns, their services, and their populations.

But it's cool, as a nation we're just going to pass up on this massive economic opportunity because the general public have fallen for the fossil fuel industries propaganda.

I mean why would the fuck would anyone want to invest in clean and affordable energy infrastructure, energy efficient buildings, highly skilled jobs, exportable services and products when they can just keep the status quo of increasing inequality and lower standards of living??

What? We have been and are investing in all of that. You seem to be under the impression that we are all still huddled around coal fires and pumping leaded petrol fumes in the air from cars that are 200x less efficient than the ones we have now.

Someone has fallen for propaganda that’s for sure.

Look, I’ve never voted Tory probably never will but it’s a fallacy if anyone thinks any political party won’t have to do the same as Sunak just did in this particular case. We can’t meet the targets on time. It just isn’t feasible. Of course we are still going to push onwards, but this is realistic updating of the schedule.

Part of the reason why we won’t meet the targets has been caused by the Tories absolutely. But what is done is done, there is no time machine to go back and correct their mistakes so this delay is a delay that can only be accepted and we move on.

It seems we’re ahead which is good

All that’s been done so far I can’t say I’ve taken much notice, but I’m glad it’s happened

It looks like the next stint is us. Consumers

Houses and cars costing tens of thousands. That’s the tough part

pp can already spend on these but haven’t?, so maybe it’s not that easy after all

Maybe we’ve got used to idea this just happens without much of our input or cost

It's common sense.

The infrastructure is not there for all electric cars in a few years.

Banning petrol and diesel is not going to solve anything until the power points etc are in place and even then it's moot point if electric will be better unless it is run as nuclear energy.

People can't afford £15K for new boilers.

And while the rest of the world China, Us, Russia, continue to churn out mases of emissions, what we were trying to achieve in a few years won't make the slightest difference.

You don't have to check but moving the goalposts when you can't counter a point is frustrating.

You're the one who started the chiding my friend, all I did was post about how net zero was a huge opportunity if only people took the time to understand it properly and you had to come on here and try to find reason after reason after reason as to why it just can't possibly work.

No one with any understanding of the topic is struggling with how to pay for it all. Governments have to invest in infrastructure and their populations (or at least they are meant to). So instead of spending X billion of pounds over the next 3 decades propping up the increasingly volatile and diminishing fossil fuel market / producers they could transition that spending into clean, reliable, cheap renewable energy.

Instead of spending X billions on dealing with the negative outcomes that come with an ageing population living in poorly insulated homes they could front that money into improving energy efficiency in homes projects and address the root cause before it becomes an issue.

But those sort of things won't benefit the tories or their backers and the general public (or at least a good portion of them going by this thread) don't have the ability to think that far ahead.

And bully for you on making positive changes but your repetitive negativity is tiresome.

And bully for you on making positive changes but your repetitive negativity is tiresome.

I didn’t read the rest. The ‘bully for you’ was enough

Speaking of tiresome… really don’t bother replying. It’s just more of the same banging on. Post to others.

Yes much better discussion

Think the book was Material World. Sounded good

I don't think you've read anything I've posted tbh, certainly not understood it anyway. And you've a bit of a brass neck to throw the toys out the pram when you're the one that keeps replying to me.

Glad to disengage but I'll have the last word thank you.

😂

I’ve found others interesting so maybe it’s you 🤷‍♂️

Have we? I must have missed all the benefits of doing so then.

Do we have energy security? Affordable energy bills? Energy efficient buildings? A booming manufacturing industry? A happy and fairly paid workforce? Increasing standards of living? Are we meeting any of our environmental targets? Any of our Net Zero targets? The commitments we agreed to in the Paris Agreement?

AFAIK the answer to all of the above is no.

There was an episode of More or Less that I listened to last week that confirmed a calculation that China had produced more emissions in 8 years than the U K had since the Industrial revolution. Yes, a large amount of that is manufacturing crap for us to buy in the West, but it's scary.

They haven't dropped Net Zero.

All this hysteria for something that hasn't even happened.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2023/sep/20/rishi-sunaks-government-risks-looking-incapable-of-honouring-a-commitment

‘The problem, though, is the one highlighted by the furious reaction from some carmakers, in particular, to Sunak’s flip-flop. Any realistic route to net zero involves winning, and keeping, the broad confidence of businesses that will be overhauling the infrastructure. At one level, hitting the 2050 target requires an enormous public-private effort to rewire the entire economy. The whole point of setting interim targets is to make it more likely that you hit the main end goal. Presented with a legally binding commitment, the government risks looks incapable of delivering a plan that it can stick to.’

If ever there was a thread that highlights how the financial privilege that underpins mumsnet, this is it. A huge proportion of the country can't afford to shell out for everything at the pace it was expected. People with money could make their lives compliant, those without would be in an awful position.

Absolutely agree op, but nothing they do surprises me anymore. They are soulless robots

I'm no fan of the Tories and I am also very worried about climate change. However, I am hoping very much that this slowdown will apply to renewable energy generation and transmission too, so that we can work as a country on a proper renewable strategy which accepts that (a) there is no such thing as 'clean green energy" (have you see the massive environmental damage that huge pylons and wind turbines cause? (b) we need to change the way we live ie insulate old housing stock properly and not believe that EVs are clean and green and that we can therefore still jump in cars wherever and whenever we want with no implications for the planet, (c) plan out our renewable energy generation and put a stop to the current speculators' paradise approach which sees stuff popping up everywhere and being paid for when the energy it produces can't be used.

We're already paying through the nose because the Tories ditched insulation plans, scrapped Labour's minimum standards for new houses and basically made it illegal to build any onshore wind.

Maybe they don’t realise there will be ££ to pay up to change over

Anyone living, right now, in a damp, draughty home they can't afford to heat or buy should read this, and consider that the Tories mismanaged and then ditched their own pathetically underpowered schemes for better insulation: https://www.nao.org.uk/press-releases/green-homes-grant/

Useless, malevolent wankers.

The cheap Chinese electric car revolution will totally shame the UK. A country where in most towns we don't even need cars for journeys. How about something as simple as working out a how to do electric scooters safely, or getting more electric bikes on the road. If most journeys are under 3 miles, we could pretty much do away with cars anyway. And or move to sensible rental systems for larger vehicles.

Had my Mum ranting at me about the amount of traffic, the state of the roads, ULEZ and something about electric cars being bad. A weird scatter gun of views that started out with there are too many cars, too much pollution etc. And descended into why haven't they lynched that London Mayor? She's probably that weird target demographic the Tories might be chasing - the pitchfork raising outraged GB newsers.

But listening to Sunak, he sounds like the stupid kid in the class struggling to read out bunkum. He didn't offer anything.

And people seem to totally miss the part of the British industrial heritage, the worldwide carnage and rape of foreign lands. We still pollute elsewhere by buying imported manufactured products. Were we not just shipping our tyres to India to just get burnt there? It's all pretty shameful.

Build better houses, don't pollute and spaff energy up the wall when you don't need to. Lead by example.

They couldn't get anyone to bid on windfarms because they wouldn't pay enough despite giving millions to explore offshore gas. Agree it's scary to have to think about switching to a heat pump during cost of living. They could subsidise it by taxing the wealthy and private jets

Oh my days.is this mindlessness real?