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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think that the Tories are utterly wicked to drop net zero?

578 replies

Upsizer · 19/09/2023 21:50

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

I think this is genuinely wicked but I guess it was inevitable with the easiness of drumming up a culture war over environmental issues to win votes. Environment is the new Brexit.

Fighting climate change is going to cost all of us thousands of pounds. So we won’t do it - to get votes.

Our children will live on an island suffering extremes of heat and fighting off refugees from uninhabitable parts of the world.

But it will save us some cash I guess.

AIBU to think this is wicked?

Sunak planning to drop net zero policies in pre-election challenge to Labour

Plans set to be announced on Friday could include delaying ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/19/rishi-sunak-planning-drop-net-zero-policies-pre-election-challenge-labour

OP posts:
Thread gallery
26
IslaWinds · 20/09/2023 17:59

EasternStandard · 20/09/2023 07:10

@IslaWinds I appreciate the graphs showing where we are

The changes required are many, it was very ambitious. And when it came to people spending money on those then that will be hard too. Right now it’s an abstract if positive phrase. Being tied in to it is another matter

Going by info U.K. looks fairly ahead, next US GE might be the one for sweating over

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Thank you. I am glad someone likes the graphs. If the U.K. were doing nothing or had delayed action for decades like Canada has, I would not hesitate to call a spade a spade.

hattie43 · 20/09/2023 18:01

It's great news . Time we knocked this ideology on the head without being allowed a proper debate .

Janieforever · 20/09/2023 18:03

hattie43 · 20/09/2023 18:01

It's great news . Time we knocked this ideology on the head without being allowed a proper debate .

Agree, this thread looks like a load of labour supporters thinking they have something, the reality is from what I can see this move is very popular in general.

IslaWinds · 20/09/2023 18:03

notallcupsinthecupboard · 20/09/2023 07:18

The UK population represents only 0.84% of world population. So if „less than 1%“ emissions is higher than 0,84% the UK is still proportionally responsible for more than „their fair share“ of world emissions. Surely the whole world has to do something because no one country is solely responsible for climate change. It would be nice if a country which, by the figures above, is causing more than their fair share of emissions, would lead by example.

We are slightly above the global average on a per capita basis yes. But keep in mind the average includes people scraping by in survival mode with no running water, no electricity, no flushing toilets, no motorised transport and all the issues that come with that- famine, high infant and child mortality, no education, oppression of women. Whereas, we have a similar lifestyle to Canada at 1/3rd the emissions.

I think we have lead by example, and for decades. The first cuts are the easiest, we are down to the difficult ones that require time and investment you accomplish. It’s like a marathon- the first 13 miles easy..but we are in the second half now and so every mile from here to the finish line will be hard won.

IslaWinds · 20/09/2023 18:04

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 20/09/2023 07:43

and what if all countries which emit 5% or less behaved this irresponsibly ? what effect would that have on global targets ?

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We aren’t behaving irresponsibly though.

IslaWinds · 20/09/2023 18:07

Fawful · 20/09/2023 08:11

We are focussing on carbon capture. It's completely part of the answer to get to Net Zero. Net Zero envisages that people will still be leading comfortable lives and consume a fair amount and carbon capture will help balance it out. It's a myth that Net Zero involves trying to get people to emit nothing and be poor. Climate scientists just say that carbon capture is not enough on its own.

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I agree on the myth 100%. Net zero doesn’t mean no cars, no flying, no trains and so on.

Talltall · 20/09/2023 18:10

@Upsizer

Bankrupt of ethics morals talent and ethical ideas.

all Brexit liars and need to go.

can we survive the next 15 months

the uk is an utter mess at the moment

and it’s all happened in the last five years with this lot and their Brexit Bs. And lack of spending and law and order.

no this it’s too much just too much

Talltall · 20/09/2023 18:11

@Princessandthepea0

that is like saying I only killed one person and they killed 100 they are the problem

jeez

PennyNotWise · 20/09/2023 18:14

You had me at utterly wicked

MadderthanMorris · 20/09/2023 18:14

Wow. You didn't notice that the Tories were wicked before?

IslaWinds · 20/09/2023 18:14

Petimrose · 20/09/2023 09:42

Some people seem to conveniently ignore which country has caused most of the pollution since the industrial revolution began.

The countries suffering from climate change now do so because of what we did in the oast not just the present.

Our current output is still far greater than the nations suffering the most.

There are huge business opportunities for us to lead on this

It depresses me the attitude some take on this just so they don't have to change

It’s being ignored because it is outdated. The U.K. was the biggest cumulative polluter in 1900 but hasn’t been for over a century. There is now a very very wide gap between us and the top polluters.

We are also suffering from climate change.

Our current output is not “far greater” than the countries suffering the most. Try looking at the figures before writing long outdated statements.

AIBU to think that the Tories are utterly wicked to drop net zero?
WomblingTree86 · 20/09/2023 18:16

FrangipaniBlue · 19/09/2023 22:04

and there we have it - the reason we're being told by the press "look over here at Russell Brand!!"

I bloody knew there was something afoot with the government, said it to DH this morning!!

They would have released it a four days ago if that was the case.

Comedycook · 20/09/2023 18:18

It's excellent news. I've really had enough of being constantly preached to about the environment. So sorry I don't have £50k spare to buy an electric car and install a heat pump.

EasternStandard · 20/09/2023 18:19

WomblingTree86 · 20/09/2023 18:16

They would have released it a four days ago if that was the case.

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Given the PM made an actual statement I doubt it’s being hidden. Google shows it’s everywhere

The pp you’re responding to hasn’t thought it through, it’s a nuts claim

IslaWinds · 20/09/2023 18:19

Nat6999 · 20/09/2023 14:25

It's not just about cars, we could be a world leader in green energy, we are an island surrounded by sea, we could be harnessing the power of the sea using tidal power. Look at the jobs that could be created, home insulation, solar panels, green energy, green technology. We used to have brilliant industry here, brilliant engineering that could have been designing & producing everything to make this country more energy efficient. We should be encouraging young people to train for jobs in everything green but we can't because we have lost so much of our industry. You want solar panels or home insulation, you are stuck with asking your neighbour who did yours? It should be I want insulation & solar panels, I contact the company who is covering the whole of the country, has tons of information, is working street by street to install it. We could have had that but because our governments haven't thought about it or have ignored what is happening & I don't just mean the Tories. Remember when we swapped the gas over years ago it was done nationally, this should be the same.

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Is this a joke? I have solar panels and I literally got three local companies to give me a quote and had them installed within a couple of months. You can just ring up a company and get solar panels.

Also tidal power is quirky. You need the sort of landscape that Holland has to get it to work.

EasternStandard · 20/09/2023 18:21

Comedycook · 20/09/2023 18:18

It's excellent news. I've really had enough of being constantly preached to about the environment. So sorry I don't have £50k spare to buy an electric car and install a heat pump.

I wonder if the posters saying how evil it is have a spare £50k to get everything renewed

PhoebesHusband · 20/09/2023 18:22

@EasternStandard Thanks, we in and around the metals industry have been saying it for years. I mentioned copper because we all know the stuff.
There are some charts and notes in The Times today. It is scary.
I just saw a totally batshit post about banning plastic -Duh-
There are still about a billion people in the world without drinking water or sanitation. They also need a vehicle and a fridge and a couple of light bulbs.
How do we fix that?

TodayInahurry · 20/09/2023 18:23

I quite agree with putting it forward to 2035, I believe which is the same as the EU. They have seen how unpopular Khan’s ULEZ tax grab is. Also heat pumps that are expensive, noisy, don’t work and can’t be fitted to flats. People having to spend ££ on Chinese manufactured cars they can’t afford

IslaWinds · 20/09/2023 18:23

Upsizer · 20/09/2023 11:39

Yes it will cost money: but how much did Brexit or covid cost each household?

And this is something where we can actually GROW our economy while making improvements: a benefit that Brexit and covid have failed to have…

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You cannot grow the economy by thinking people made skint by an economic crisis will suddenly have thousands of £ to spend on things like Teslas and solar panels. You need the economy to stabilise first, for real wages to increase, for the cost of living to stop inflating so much and then households will be able to save and then invest in greener technology.

You cant count the chickens when you have no eggs. That’s why the targets had to be pushed out a bit. The country is broke, people are starving and homeless. We have sewage in our water systems. People are dying due to a crippled health system. There is no point having a net zero graveyard. It has to be balanced against the humans alive today.

IslaWinds · 20/09/2023 18:26

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 20/09/2023 13:04

You started talking about this in the context of the big picture so I'm not sure why you're now focusing down on individual level issues?

It's irrelevant whether you or I can afford to upgrade our house becuase the point I was making is that, from big picture perspective, there are huge additional benefits to society in pursuing net zero projects if you can look past the "oooooo the cost" and "oooooo other countries' headlines being pushed by outlets with vested intrests.

Like I said there's literally trillions of pounds worth of finance already earmarked for these types of projects. A visionary, or even semi-competent, government would look to access those funds and create national schemes to help upgrade all housing stock so that it doesn't cost you and me 15k to do so.

I genuinely don't understand why you are arguing against improving energy efficiency in buildings? Do you also moan that you have to maintain your house in general?

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The finance isn’t earmarked for Joe Bloggs to buy solar panels, heat pumps and two Teslas. It is earmarked for businesses to do thing like decarbonise their fleets of container ships or airlines to decarbonise their aeroplanes.

Comedycook · 20/09/2023 18:28

EasternStandard · 20/09/2023 18:21

I wonder if the posters saying how evil it is have a spare £50k to get everything renewed

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Maybe?! This obsession with the environment is very much a middle class thing

Barnowlsandbluebells · 20/09/2023 18:28

You want solar panels or home insulation, you are stuck with asking your neighbour who did yours? It should be I want insulation & solar panels, I contact the company who is covering the whole of the country, has tons of information, is working street by street to install it. We could have had that but because our governments haven't thought about it or have ignored what is happening & I don't just mean the Tories.

WTH??? This is a total load of bullshit. There are literally HUNDREDS of companies willing to offer free advice on how to improve the energy efficiency of your home and what support is available in your area and then work with you to implement the best approach.

IslaWinds · 20/09/2023 18:29

Heat pumps aren’t suitable for a huge amount of our housing stock, so what then - let people freeze but have huge electric bills for the privilege?

They also do not reduce the carbon foot print right now because we burn tonnes of natural gas to produce electricity. So whether you use electricity created by burning natural gas to run a heat pump or burn gas to run a boiler- you’re still burning gas to get heat, and in some older homes (200yrs old and up) it is true that heat pumps are less efficient than gas boilers in terms of heat generated.

EasternStandard · 20/09/2023 18:32

Comedycook · 20/09/2023 18:28

Maybe?! This obsession with the environment is very much a middle class thing

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Pp can splurge on the EV, solar panels and heat pump already if they want to

The idea there aren’t companies ready to supply as in pp is just silly

Barnowlsandbluebells · 20/09/2023 18:36

IslaWinds · 20/09/2023 18:29

Heat pumps aren’t suitable for a huge amount of our housing stock, so what then - let people freeze but have huge electric bills for the privilege?

They also do not reduce the carbon foot print right now because we burn tonnes of natural gas to produce electricity. So whether you use electricity created by burning natural gas to run a heat pump or burn gas to run a boiler- you’re still burning gas to get heat, and in some older homes (200yrs old and up) it is true that heat pumps are less efficient than gas boilers in terms of heat generated.

Surely that depends on what the heat pump is actually heating - we use an MVHR plus heat pump combo to heat our house. The MVHR can recover over 90% of the heat and feed it back. Our electricity bill is very low (no mains gas).