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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this just sums up XL Bully owners?

717 replies

Ozarkz · 19/09/2023 16:15

Look North last night. Peter Levy is interviewing a woman who owns two XL Bullys. Both cropped and docked which she says happened in another country before she got them (yeah, course it did).

Peter asks her “so why do people want these dogs in the first place, what’s the attraction for you?”

She replies “well I wanted dogs that were good with kids and famines and stuff so we got XL Bully’s cos they’re great with kids”

Wtf? If I didn’t know better I’d swear this was a spoof interview. Good with kids and families?? These dogs have been responsible for the most human deaths in dog attacks in the UK in recent years!!! Just last week an 11 year CHILD was attacked by one of these dogs … so when looking for a child friendly dog she bypasses the golden retriever etc and goes for the breed with the biggest track record of killing humans …

He then asked her if she will comply with the muzzle when the laws are changed - she said NO.

Then the cherry on the cake … he asked her “would you leave your child alone with these dogs?” And she said “yes, absolutely. I leave my two year old alone with them all the time whilst I’m busy making dinner etc”

Honestly the interview couldn’t have been any more gobsmacking.

This just sums up XL bully owners doesn’t it? Thick as pig shit with no regard to their own safety or the safety of others.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Oldsu · 20/09/2023 18:29

BardRelic · 20/09/2023 09:37

@Oldsu have you seen, in real life not on video, what happens when a large bully/ pit bull or mastiff does attack another dog? I think if you had, you might see why comparisons with Labradors aren't helpful. Personally I don't think the XL bullies currently around should all be destroyed. I do think they should all be neutered.

As great as it is that some of them, with a huge amount of training from someone who knows what they're doing, are tolerant of other dogs, I don't think it means that they as a breed or type, overall, are safe. It's like saying guns are safe because trained police officers are fine with them. That doesn't, of course, mean it's suddenly ok to retract the gun laws. (And that's before we start on how dangerous the police can be).

The issue with XL bullies is their size and power, coupled with a killer instinct in many of them that can make them absolutely lethal to humans and to many other animals. Labradors can be a bit dubious, but they don't go for your throat and hold on until you're dead, or they are, because you looked at them a bit funny. And honestly, as someone used to reading animal body language, some of these dogs really are hair trigger and change mood in the blink of an eye. You don't get the gradual build up of signs that you get in the majority of other breeds. We don't need a knee jerk reaction to them, but we do need a very careful examination of how they are kept and we need to put measures in place to ensure the safety of all animals and people around them.

@BardRelic you are totally missing the point its not about what damage the lab would do in comparison to the bully its about the fact that without that video showing that the bully was totally under control and was being jumped on and his face bitten and was virtually under attack then he would have been blamed if the lab was killed or injured, not the out of control lab because of his size and breed he would have automatically been seen as the aggressor. No lab would have been taken away by the police, no lab would have been tasered or shot in that scenario but the bully would certainly have run the risk of one or the other.

Iheartpizza · 20/09/2023 19:17

OldSu -

If the Bully had killed the Lab - I would consider that a completely disproportionate and violent response and not acceptable, whoever happened to be the instigator.

Look, we shall have to agree to disagree on this point.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 20/09/2023 21:23

Just seen that bully xl owners in Birmingham are organising a big bully meet, encouraging everyone to bring their bully xls all together to show everyone how gentle they are. 'Bring as many kids as possible' they encourage.

They really are quite insane.

MotherofGorgons · 20/09/2023 21:26

Good god! It's like those loony NRA meetings with kids and guns.

BardRelic · 20/09/2023 21:44

MrTiddlesTheCat · 20/09/2023 21:23

Just seen that bully xl owners in Birmingham are organising a big bully meet, encouraging everyone to bring their bully xls all together to show everyone how gentle they are. 'Bring as many kids as possible' they encourage.

They really are quite insane.

Seems like a good way of proving that Bullies are dangerous, I just wish they'd leave the kids out of it.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 20/09/2023 21:52

I've had dogs all my life and I know when there's a group it only takes one to get a bit over excited and then all hell lets loose.

BardRelic · 20/09/2023 22:05

Well just look what happened with that poor woman in Caterham. Eight dogs together, one of them her own XL Bully and that was the one that killed her. There's a reason 'pack mentality' is known to take hold and results in people and animals doing things they wouldn't do on their own.

MiniTheMinx · 20/09/2023 22:19

Well that sounds like a fun day out Confused just imagine the publicity if half a dozen of these dogs start on each other!

TorqueWrench · 20/09/2023 22:30

BardRelic · 20/09/2023 22:05

Well just look what happened with that poor woman in Caterham. Eight dogs together, one of them her own XL Bully and that was the one that killed her. There's a reason 'pack mentality' is known to take hold and results in people and animals doing things they wouldn't do on their own.

No, it was actually a pit bull which she'd rehomed after it bit a child, and it had already bitten her twice in the days leading up to the fatal attack. Her boyfriend was not keen on the dog apparently.

Previously, it was reported that the dog responsible was an American Bully XL, and the animal was destroyed following an investigation.

However, veterinary surgeon Dr Alison Robson - an expert court witness who examined Natasha's cause of death - has revealed that Stan was a pit bull, which is one of four breeds banned in the UK by the Dangerous Dogs Act of 1991.

In November last year, Natasha reportedly rescued Stan from owners who planned to put him down after he bit one of their children. He also bit Natasha twice in the days leading up to the tragic attack, a friend said.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dog-walker-savaged-death-walking-30955005?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

BardRelic · 20/09/2023 22:41

Thanks @TorqueWrench that's interesting. Just shows how difficult it is to identify these breeds. And also that banning them is a game of whack a mole.

SemperIdem · 20/09/2023 22:44

Truly fascinated how this thread has taken the turn into “men are more likely to kill you than a dog”.

XL bully’s being dangerous is not a feminist issue, what a ridiculous straw man argument.

TorqueWrench · 20/09/2023 22:47

SemperIdem · 20/09/2023 22:44

Truly fascinated how this thread has taken the turn into “men are more likely to kill you than a dog”.

XL bully’s being dangerous is not a feminist issue, what a ridiculous straw man argument.

You're a bit late to the party. Thread has moved on. 😂

Nobody said it was a feminist issue. It was just an observation that people fixate on some risks whilst totally ignoring other bigger risks. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm never going to post about 'feminist issues', I find most feminists incredibly tedious tbh.

SemperIdem · 20/09/2023 22:59

@TorqueWrench of course you do. Your sort are always the same.

humanity15 · 20/09/2023 23:14

*Due to it being a matter of public interest in terms of safety, I'm sharing the following.

People do not fully understand dogs, that is the problem.

Not just owners but many dog trainers, behaviourists and especially the major rescue charities.

The information the major rescue charities are giving out to the public is so dangerous.

Their "All Dogs Bite" and "Deed Not Breed" messages are totally irresponsible.

For the past few years myself along with a number of others have been trying to raise awareness of dangerous dogs.

I have also been campaigning to get better protection for those who work in the animal rescue secture and also for whistleblowers who I think few are yet to realise the importance of.

The dog control coalition which includes Dogs Trust, RSPCA, Blue Cross and Battersea are calling for Breed Specific Legislation to be dropped from the dangerous dogs act.

This would allow not just XL-Bully dogs to be legally owned here but all the dangerous dog breeds currently banned.

These charities which are meant to care about animal welfare have shown very little concern for all the innocent pets that have been brutally killed recently by other dogs. Most have been killed by the same types of dogs which they want to see made legal here.

Totally innocent people are being severely injured and killed in the most horrific ways, yet these charities continue to campaign for allowing these dogs to remain on our streets.

Dogs Trust have kept their own record on safety from the public, despite the public being the ones who fund them.

Dogs Trust have purposely withheld dangerous dog assessments from staff.

Failed to tell their staff dogs they were working with had injured other staff.

Failed to legally report under RIDDOR.

So many have been injured whilst working for this charity, some very seriously.

There is a video about Dogs Trust on youtube to raise public awareness as they have failed to be open with the public.

Places like Dogs Trust are the ones decision makers are listening to about dangerous dogs.

What everyone needs to know isn't just that all dogs bite.
People need to understand the different reasons why dogs bite and the true threat they pose.

A dog communicates using body language.
For instance if a stranger comes to close and the dog feels uncomfortable it may cower, growl, air snap etc.
If those warnings are ignored it may resort to biting.

Once it has been successful in communicating the dog will stop, so when the stranger backs away.

This is TOTALLY different to a dog that has a strong drive to fight.

Please research the term GAMENESS in relation to fighting dogs, it will explain alot.

All dogs have inherited characteristics. Certain ones are stronger in certain breeds depending on what they were originally bred for.

A breed originally bred for fighting will have a drive to do just that.
How strong that drive in an individual dog depends on what has been passed down through its lineage.

This means unlike a fearful dog it isn't going to snap if a stranger gets too close and stop when that person moves away.

It isn't going to give a quick bite if its in pain and you try and touch where it hurts.

What it means is a dog bred to fight and one which has a strong desire to do just that will not stop until its opponent is no more.

It knows the most vulnerable parts on another which is why you see so many injuries around the neck area.

It will often bite down and not let go.

It will completely ignore another dogs appeasement signals and continue to attack.

It will fight to the death.

These dogs are NOT like other dogs.

This is what makes them so dangerous.

They do not need to be trained to do this as they have a natural instinct for this already.

No amount of good will is going to change that.

This is your starting point before any external influences.

If you have a dog with a strong desire to fight you could be in serious trouble.

Having been bred to fight to the death, they will not stop even when they have suffered serious injuries to themselves.

They have an incredibly high pain threshold.

This is why such a statement as All Dogs Bite without proper explanation is so dangerous.

When it takes sometimes five people or tazers to get a dog off someone that is serious.

It doesn't mind how many cute pictures you take of the dog or how affectionate it is.

It doesn't matter how good a dog trainer or behaviourist anyone is there is only so much anyone can do to try and suppress a dogs natural instincts.

That desire will always be there, in certain circumstances that natural instinct will come out.

A good dog trainer or behaviourist will recognise this.
Many are starting to refuse to work with certain dogs because of the danger to themselves and because they know there is nothing they can really do, these dogs will always pose a serious threat.

Just because the dog hasn't shown that side of it pleae do not presume it is not there.
Many owners have only realised the true danger when it is too late.

With certain types of dogs instead of breeding this drive out the opposite is being done. The drive to fight is being bred into them on purpose.

In many XL-Bully dogs ones that showed people aggression were bred from.
With a small gene pool used it was almost guaranteed this would be passed down to their offspring.

The result is what we are now seeing on our streets.

This is not the dogs fault, they are totally innocent.

They are not good or bad they just are.

A dog that wants to bring you something is not bad because it was bred to retrieve.

A dog that wants to fight is not bad because it was bred to fight.

Just because we see one instinct as acceptable and one not is not the dogs fault.

We are the ones who have brought both these dogs into our homes and labelled them as pets.

This is what people are not being told but to keep everyone safe it is what everyone must know.

Animal charities, if they really care about dogs need to seriously look at all those being injured and killed by other dogs.

They need to look at why most of their shelters are full with only certain breeds.

They need to educate the public on different breeds of dogs and be honest around them.
The demand for certain breeds would drop and less dogs would be bred as a result.

If they really cared about dogs, that is what they would do.

People also need to look at what is in the interests of the dog.
Are certain breeds suitable in a home environment as pets and out on the streets with people and other dogs.

If the answer is no then putting them in that environment where you are asking them to completely suppress their natural instinct 100% of the time is probably going to lead to them ending up in a shelter or being put to sleep.

No dog lover wants to see that.

Increase Safety Standards for People Working with Rescue Dogs

https://youtu.be/mHREm4pO-CI?feature=shared

PandoraRocks · 20/09/2023 23:21

Unfortunately, most of the stereotypes of Bully owners are true. This morning I was in a cafe when a young woman walked in. Tattoos all around her neck and an obvious 'trout pout'. Loads of makeup. Chav personified. She recognised a bloke and they both began slagging off the Bully ban and trotting out 'it's the owner not the dog' myth. Both Bully owners.
I wouldn't like to see a woman in her 20s like her trying to control one of these monsters.

Boomboom22 · 20/09/2023 23:25

Everyone needs to write to their mp about taking this further. And quite possibly complain to the charity commission, every one of the dog charities is a disgrace. Any dog that bites at all should be pts immediately, no matter the reason, certainly not advertised to families and rehomed. Rescues shouldn't really be a thing, once a dog has been neglected or ill treated it is far too late.

SemperIdem · 20/09/2023 23:33

@Boomboom22 rescuing a dog when you have children is extremely difficult because the people who run them tend to be very knowledgeable about dog behaviour and therefore suitability. They are strict and correctly so.

A large number of dogs in rescue homes are not there because of bite incidents but because of owner deaths or ignorance over exercise/health needs.

sandyhappypeople · 20/09/2023 23:45

Boomboom22 · 20/09/2023 23:25

Everyone needs to write to their mp about taking this further. And quite possibly complain to the charity commission, every one of the dog charities is a disgrace. Any dog that bites at all should be pts immediately, no matter the reason, certainly not advertised to families and rehomed. Rescues shouldn't really be a thing, once a dog has been neglected or ill treated it is far too late.

once a dog has been neglected or ill treated it is far too late.

That's really sad, and not necessarily true. People can be horrendous to dogs, there are so many dogs out there that have been terribly mistreated and never shown an ounce of aggression, they deserve a second chance.

My old boy was taken back to the RSPCA twice before I had him, it was last chance saloon, he was quite a big dog, quite stubborn to start off with before he settled in, he was a fluffy greyhound cross but no kidding he was the BEST dog, never showed any aggression to people, kids or other dogs, it just didn't seem to be in his nature, he was super chill and went everywhere with me, I had him for 14 years, he would have been PTS if I hadn't have given him a chance.

montysma1 · 21/09/2023 00:00

If you have one of these as your pet, you are indeed thick as shit. Regardless of how many degrees you have.

BellaAndDave · 21/09/2023 00:13

Oldsu · 20/09/2023 18:29

@BardRelic you are totally missing the point its not about what damage the lab would do in comparison to the bully its about the fact that without that video showing that the bully was totally under control and was being jumped on and his face bitten and was virtually under attack then he would have been blamed if the lab was killed or injured, not the out of control lab because of his size and breed he would have automatically been seen as the aggressor. No lab would have been taken away by the police, no lab would have been tasered or shot in that scenario but the bully would certainly have run the risk of one or the other.

Please read my post I made earlier. My lab was killed by an XL Bully. DH is a vet and refused to treat these dogs for years even before the attack. I trust his judgement. Have I met unpredictable breeds before? Of course I have. I’ve seen so many breeds in the surgery over 25 years and watched vet nurses and vets having to deal with peoples “babies”.

The day my dog was killed I have never seen a dog wagging its tail and throwing a 30kg lab about like a rag doll! Am I angry? Yes I am, I have children and grandchildren, I’m just glad my grandchildren weren’t there that morning. I know a dog isn’t like a child but that dog (the one that was rag dolled, the one that had its back broken and the one that had internal injuries so bad he could be saved) was a life line for me. He was my epilepsy medical assistance dog.

DH was bitten when he smacked it with a fence post over and over again but the thing just kept going, all the time wagging its tail. I won’t lie, he drowned it in the end. It came down to him or the dog… Do I have any remorse for the way that dog died? Absolutely not. As for the owners they can rot in hell for all I care.

TorqueWrench · 21/09/2023 00:19

Something needs to be done as they're defo over represented in attacks. However, what's interesting is that most experts seem to have a very different view to the posters on here and seem to believe it's poor training, which I can believe as chavs love them.

Either way, the end result is the same so something needs to happen.

Iheartpizza · 21/09/2023 00:42

MrTiddlesTheCat · 20/09/2023 21:23

Just seen that bully xl owners in Birmingham are organising a big bully meet, encouraging everyone to bring their bully xls all together to show everyone how gentle they are. 'Bring as many kids as possible' they encourage.

They really are quite insane.

Anyone from this thread planning to go?!

SkiingIsHeaven · 21/09/2023 01:03

It's a shame you can't neuter the owners too.

Oldsu · 21/09/2023 01:47

BellaAndDave · 21/09/2023 00:13

Please read my post I made earlier. My lab was killed by an XL Bully. DH is a vet and refused to treat these dogs for years even before the attack. I trust his judgement. Have I met unpredictable breeds before? Of course I have. I’ve seen so many breeds in the surgery over 25 years and watched vet nurses and vets having to deal with peoples “babies”.

The day my dog was killed I have never seen a dog wagging its tail and throwing a 30kg lab about like a rag doll! Am I angry? Yes I am, I have children and grandchildren, I’m just glad my grandchildren weren’t there that morning. I know a dog isn’t like a child but that dog (the one that was rag dolled, the one that had its back broken and the one that had internal injuries so bad he could be saved) was a life line for me. He was my epilepsy medical assistance dog.

DH was bitten when he smacked it with a fence post over and over again but the thing just kept going, all the time wagging its tail. I won’t lie, he drowned it in the end. It came down to him or the dog… Do I have any remorse for the way that dog died? Absolutely not. As for the owners they can rot in hell for all I care.

@BellaAndDave So I can understand why you think that way of course I can, I feel the same way about the husky who attacked one of my Pugs who lost an eye in the encounter, it took two large men to get the husky away from my pug while the stupid owner just stood there, I was bitten myself, yet sorry I don't think all husky owners should rot in hell.

I also respect your husbands decision but of course I do know that many vets will treat bully types, I also know that a well respected charity who supports homeless and vulnerable people and their dogs (of all breeds and types ) are working out how to ensure these dogs meet legal requirements (once it is known what it will be) the same as well respected law firms who specialise in dog law are extending their support for owners of suspected xl bully types, just as I know that some dog charities and law firms will step away from the types. Just because some professionals like your husband have one view does not mean nor should it that others in the same professions will have the same mindset.

MotherofGorgons · 21/09/2023 07:16

@BellaAndDave The more you post the more I am horrified by your experience. You don't need to defend your actions or thinking. I wouldn't feel any remorse either at drowning this dog. I only wish the owners were punished.

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