To expect DH not to give in every time DD cries

[bananahanna]

DH seems unable to tolerate our DD 19 mo crying, especially when it's in public. As a result she is very quickly learning that if she wants something she needs to cry, and if she's not getting it then she needs to up her screaming. I've tried to talk to him about it, explain it, send articles, demonstrate, model it myself. I feel like I've tried everything but his response is "it's so difficult to see her cry" or "she's our little girl, if we can stop her being upset we should!" (or something along those lines, when in private) or in public it's "people are looking at us" "this is so embarrassing" "we are disturbing people's dinners".

So I'm left with two problems
A) by default I become the baddie or the bad cop, whilst he's the nice parent, the best friend, the good cop. All just because I want to raise a nice person, not a spoilt brat
B) I'm left with a toddler who screams non-stop because she's learnt it's her way of getting things. For example, if she's on a walk with her dad she will cry and he will take her out of the pram (we get into an argument when we are on a walk together because he insists on doing this so I know he would 100% do it without me). So when I'm walking home from the park and she's decided she doesn't want to sit anymore, I've got a screaming toddler because she's learnt that's how she can get her way, unless I fancy carrying 12kg of baby along with pushing her pram with the other hand. Or same with if she wants me to give something she can't have - my husband will give it to her if she cries so she expects the same from me and screams the house down because I don't.

I'm a SAHM so really it's me who is suffering most of the time from her tantrums. He just comes in on weekends and for 1hr in the evening to be "nice dad".

If I talk to him about it the responses are all very much along the lines of "but she's my baby, I love her so much, how can you stop her, she's so little and I can't handle my poor lovely girl crying, do you have a heart"

I will admit I'm kind of with him on the public behaviour thing, but in the opposite way. DS quickly learnt that behaviour which would just about be tolerated at home would result in a "scary mummy" response when out and about. To confirm he was never hit, but the reaction from me was so different to what he was used to he learned that "outside DS" needed to be obedient and quiet.

He sounds like a lazy fucker tbh. He wants to say yes to everything because it's easier, then leave you with the actual issues it causes. How utterly disrespectful to you.

I think if you cannot get him to sort this issue with conversation, I'd attempt it with action - take yourself off out Friday as soon as he gets jn from work and tell him you'll be home Monday morning in time for him to leave for work.

It's extreme, of course. But he needs to see what a world of saying Yes to everything actually looks like. Especially if he has to deal with saying Yes all the time and sort a food shop, laundry and housework like you do all week too.

@OneMoreStepAlongTheRoadIGo

If they prefer to walk/sit I'd go with that. If he's happy to carry I don't see the problem? Mine loved being carried when they were small.*
*
Then she learns that she needs to cry to be carried. And I can't carry her as well as pushing the pram (and possibly carrying her toy in the other hand or a shopping bag) when it's just us 2 - I'm a SAHM. It's not sustainable for this to become a habit.

If they have a favourite cushion/blankey/toy they carry everywhere and it genuinely isn't a problem I don't see the issue there either. If its an item of yours I'd see about finding soemthing else they can carry instead rather than just saying no. *

Yes it's not a problem if it's her toy.* It is a problem if it's cushions from my sofa. And I'm suggesting offering an alternative - a random cloth or her own toy that we could bin. But she might cry for a bit because she wants the cushions from the sofa

Another thing is to practice "yes". Can I have a snack "yes when we get home" rather than "No not now, not until we get home. " or can we do X "yes on Saturday... shall I show you when Saturday is?" Rather than "no not til Saturday ".

If they are constantly upset I think it's up to us to help them through/ distract/find alternatives.*

Key word is DISTRACT and ALTERNATIVES.* But she cries for a bit and that's unbearable. Especially in public. Better to give her that glass of water that she could break, and then spend half an hour running after her trying to prevent her from breaking it, than take it away, offer her a bread roll / plastic cup / a toy instead because "everyone will be looking at us whilst she cries"

There's lots of ideas out there to support parenting without just saying no and leaving to cry.

He needs to do some work on himself and work out why he has such a low tolerance for her showing negative emotions.

Feeling sad/angry/jealous or what have you is just a part of life. Part of being a parent is holding space for our children to feel those things- and teaching them they are strong enough and emotions are temporary etc. that's how we prepare them for the world and teach them to be resilient.

If he swoops in and solves everything for her, she's not going to learn those skills around resilience, confidence and emotional regulation. One day there will be a problem he can't solve, and she'll be ill equipped to weather it because he deprived her of opportunities to grow.

Maybe you could try it yourself with him and it'll highlight how ridiculous it is

"Dh, I want a coffee, give me yours"
"No! You've got one"
"I want yours!!! Waaaaaaa!" Whilst throwing yourself on the floor and fake crying til he hands it over.

Then just stand up and say "this is what you will create"

And repeat for every interaction with him over the next week.

For what it's worth OP when I was a kid I saw my Dad one evening a week, lived the rest of the time with my Mum. One week she put a note in our overnight bag asking my Dad to wash my hair - he usually gave me a bath but didn't bother with my hair and this week it needed a wash. She told me she was putting it in there and to show him if he didn't notice.

I HATED having my hair washed and cried the moment I got to my Dad's because I didn't want him to do it, he immediately told me he wasn't going to if I didn't want to. As a kid I was pleased but as an adult I fume about it on behalf of my Mum. Let her be the bad guy and do all the parenting because you don't know how to deal with my tears for one night??

Also if I saw the three of you out in public and your DD began to cry I wouldn't think that was embarrassing, if you said no to something and she began to cry and he immediately caved in I would find that embarrassing.

My DH went through this with our second. He was going through a stressful time at work, and after we discussed on a good, calm day(not one where we had argued about the issue), he admitted that he felt really overwhelmed at not being able to immediately solve the crying. It wasn't that he was wet or wanted to be a Disney dad, he just found the crying really triggering (just as many parents do). So we agreed that if she started crying, he would give us a break in the other room or outside or walk away and set a timer for 15 minutes. If I wasn't able to distract her by the time he got back, I would give her what she wanted, NOT him. It normally only took 5-10 mins though to find something else and distract her. Toddler discipline really thrives on distraction.

When he says: "but she's my baby, I love her so much, how can you stop her, she's so little and I can't handle my poor lovely girl crying, do you have a heart"

Counteract with:

"but she's my baby, I love her so much, I want her to grow up having friends and getting along with people, how can you stop her from learning good boundaries, do you have a heart?”

With the pram it's that she wants to be carried. Not walk. She wants to be carried. My boundary is that you can walk or be in the pram but I'm not carrying if the pram is with us (because I don't have enough hands and she's heavy, as is her pram!)

Eh, this is your boundary though. I feel like your DH is allowed to make his own decisions and if he’s happy to carry her the few times he’s out with her in the pram then it’s his choice.

Who cares if other people look? They're in a public place and babies are part of the public. We are raising a little human, surely that's far more important than someone's dinner?!

Disagree. Your parenting doesn’t need to be disruptive to other people in public. If she’s tantrumming or crying you either deal with it or remove her. Your ‘lesson’ isn’t more important than others.
Plus at 19 months the actual discipline you can use is so limited. Most of the things you’re trying to teach her she just won’t understand yet.

He’d do my fucking head in. His approach is all about him, not what’s best for her.

Of course it’s upsetting hearing our children cry, that’s what it’s designed to do. But it doesn’t always mean they’re in great distress and she’s not a newborn. She’ll be crying because she’s frustrated and doesn’t have the words for her feelings. It’s a parent’s job to give them the words, to acknowledge the feelings.

So you address it “you’re sad because you want the glass, it feels nice in your hand. It’s not safe for you to use it so I’m going to get you your favourite blue beaker and you can hold it all by yourself”, offer blue beaker, remove glass, point out the trees blowing in the wind out of the window and move on.

Which is probably what you’re doing and a more productive way to help shape behaviour without pandering and creating a monster, or ignoring your child’s wishes and feelings and making them feel minimised.

It’s harder, it takes longer, it takes repeating. It’s parenting rather than pandering which is the easy choice for the adult and a shit approach for the poor child.

I agree with others re the pram. I never carry my toddler when he doesn’t want to sit in his pram.

But if DH wants to, that’s fine. But it means that he will have to do it all the time when he’s there, or he will have to be the one to comfort her if he decides not to.

You can still say no consistently though, she’ll learn that you don’t carry her.

Yep Huffle I'm with you.

And ideally she'd ask to be carried rather than cry - but she's 19 months... so she is using what communication she can to ask for what she wants! I don't think asking for a carry is wrong, especially if she knows dad will when dad's out. Fine if mum wont/can't but it seems quite controlling not to let him carry a child who wants a carry.

And he is right she won't be small amd wanting a carry for ever. Mine misses when he used to do piggybacks!

There is lots of writing out there on this - but your husband might find this one interesting/useful: https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/healthy-boundaries-in-parenting

If I were you I would search ‘child boundaries security child development’ and you’ll find lots - pick the one you think would speak best to him.

Oh no, he is really making a rod for his own back, and yours!
My husband was rather like this. He dressed it up as empathy for the "poor baby" but the root of it was that the crying really irritated him and his focus was on a short cut to making it stop, which didn't solve the issue of helping the children manage their expectations and boundaries and cope with their emotions.

For example if baby woke too early from nap and sobbed a bit he'd rush to get them up and then they'd be tired and crotchety and not feed properly. I would go and sit next to the cot and shush-pat to help them learn that they could soothe themselves back to sleep if they stirred. Like you when we were all out together if often be pushing the empty pushchair while he carried the baby/toddler. If I was on my own I'd just be firm as I couldn't push and carry so it was walk nicely or be strapped in. Sometimes there was several minutes of indignant screaming and people did stare! But then they'd settle down.

What happened was that they (I have two children, nine years apart and the same dynamic happened both times) thought daddy was the bee's knees for a couple of years because he let them have whatever they wanted and I was Mean Mummy Who Said No. But then when they got to about 5 they were so horrendously bratty with him (not so much when it was just me) that he started to get really annoyed with them. They'd get upset, he'd get crosser, I'd be upset, it was horrible. But the good thing was it was a tipping point for him to finally accept they needed appropriate boundaries though irritatingly it was still me who mostly enforced them, but he stopped undermining me.

I don't know what to advise though as my husband wouldn't listen to me until it affected HIM so much he couldn't cope. Then second time round it played out exactly the same way. Raaahhhh!

He is wasting the optimal "window" you both have to teach your child to be an acceptable little human. She'll probably be fine in the long-term... many spoilt children grow up to be OK adults because they slowly realise that people won't put up with their shit. So I wouldn't worry too much about that. But life will be so much easier for you if you have a child who is capable of conforming with age-appropriate expectations.

The best time to start teaching them that no, they can't always have their way and that they need to follow instructions is when they are small and portable and can be chucked in the pram or over a shoulder and a quick exit made in the event of tantrums or disobedience. If you wait until you have a hefty three or four year old, life will be so much harder and people much less forgiving. That's not to say that they won't still have meltdowns sometimes - I once stood outside a supermarket watching my usually quite chilled 4yo flail and scream on the ground for 20 minutes because I'd refused to go to the toy section and they were too heavy for me to lift 😆- but hopefully they'll know better than to use tantrums as a method of getting their own way and will be better equipped to deal with disappointment.

"Who cares if other people look? They're in a public place and babies are part of the public. We are raising a little human, surely that's far more important than someone's dinner?!"

YABU here.

She's 19 months- if she's carrying on in a restaurant, take her outside. People should be able to enjoy the dinner they've paid for without the sounds of you 'raising a little human' spoiling it.

You might also want to avoid the conflict by anticipating situations where this is likely to be an issue- eg decide she's too young to take out to dinner at the moment.

She's too young to discipline, she won't understand the lesson. If it's the same situations that set her off, anticipate and avoid them where possible.

On the whole though, YANBU about the crying. She's a baby, that's what they do.

I sympathise Op because I’m a SAHM and I get to be bad cop all the time. It’s unbelievably annoying always being the strict one and to also have to parent your husband is downright ridiculous.
I agree with poster who said to teach your husband that a) you need to sit down and have a chat so that you’re on the same page with your parenting, which means you will both have to compromise on a few things (mainly him, clearly). In public I would never say that your parental duties trump other people’s right to enjoy their surroundings, so rather than tell her no and tough luck, she’s screaming her head off- tough luck it’s your anniversary meal, tough luck you have a migraine- my kid comes first attitude I’d compromise and say “if she tantrums we will give her one warning to stop the behaviour as you are disturbing people, and then we will leave”. And follow through every single time if she doesn’t stop, no matter how annoying it is for you. Until she’s learned the crying and screaming won’t get her anywhere I’d suggest maybe not going out for a lovely meal - simply take her out for a drink until you feel reassured she’s learned her lesson.
I would definitely have a chat with my husband and say this is what you’d do and this is how it affects me. And this is how it will affect her in life, and outline examples with how this behaviour will affect her in school for example. Does he think the teachers will have time to give in to every students every whim? She will be told no and if she sulks or screams they will step away and/or remove her from the situation until she’s ready to behave herself. He really is creating a monster if he’s not careful.
As for the pram example - there are 2 options, walk or sit nicely in the pram. You are too heavy to be carried full stop, end of. And don’t ever budge.

But to give you some comfort - your child isn’t far off knowing when this behaviour pays off. She’s currently in the process of learning what works and as long as you are consistent with your discipline eventually she will grow out of it.
Good luck with your husband

Yes I like Anne's response about the beaker which is better than just "leave to cry".

Similarly with omelette in water we can be firm that we don't put omelette in drinks.... when sat at the table we can't do that. We do need to teach them.

But also realise that they are exploring this and give them some things they CAN play with. They go through various schemas as toddlers and if its a phase of "putting x in y" to see what happens you could set up some water play in the garden or some rice and cups etc.

I agree they need to learn but not the constant "leave to cry" as they dont really understand why. So I'd try to find other ways (like Anne's- I know you want to hold x but we can't...here's y instead .. doesn't that feel good!) Or the distraction.

And yes! Public places of course you try and soothe or take them out

I'd be very upset on a plane or in a restaurant if you were leaving a baby to cry when you could sooth them as you thought you were "teaching" them to cry. Er no.

I meant to add the only time I would be full on Disney mum (unlimited sweets etc) was on a plane. Anything to try and keep them quiet for my sake, their sake and everyone else's! I once let my two year old draw all over her legs, face and clothes with felt tips on a flight to fuerterventura as she was sitting still and being quiet! Got a bit of a funny look at passport control.

Yanbu your dh is making a rod for his own back. My 22 month old screamed his head off in a garden centre recently because he wanted the neenaww, which was a thousand pound lawnmower. Obviously that wasn't happening, so ds screamed and roared, people looked at us , some laughed but nobody died. Toddlers cry and you can't always give them what they want. I down even have a lawn 🤣🤣 so no use for a lawnmower of any price.

I wouldn't have given in and got the neenaw but I would have helped them to regulate where possible.

"No we can't have that now but how about we go find xyz..."
"No I've said no but can you count how many dogs we can see oh Look there's one!"
"No we can't have that now but I need to find wellies. Where do we think they are?"

Or a minute or so later - "so after this we are going to the park what's your favourite thing to play on?"

I agree entirely with posters on this! I'm going out for dinner next week with friends, which will be my first break in a while from "raising my little humans". Is it unreasonable of me to hope that there are no upset or exploratory little humans being raised in my vicinity for that couple of hours 😂?

We tried all that but in the end we had to carry him out screaming , he was only doing it in the store for about 5 minutes. I sat outside while my dh finished getting what we needed. I just have a very determined and cranky Child lol

@bananahanna go away, leave him to look after her for a week.