Page 9 | Friend comment on Russell Brand situation...Not sure how to respond

Startingagainandagain · 2023-09-19T11:05:09+00:00

I was messaging a female friend this morning I was a victim of an assault by a male so called friend last year, which she is aware of. I mentioned in my message that some of what the victims are saying about Brand resonated so much with me. In her response she said something in the line of ''well he took on the establishment and now they are trying to hang him''... This really surprised me as I did not have her down for someone who would fall for that type of nonsense and I am not quite sure how to respond to her. My view is that the man is a creep and I believe the victims 100% and I am going to struggle with staying friend with someone who would put any weight on conspiracy theories. As someone who has encountered this type of predators, I feel strongly about it all. Do you think I am unreasonable to think this might be reason enough to distance myself? This is someone who I have known for a year only, rather than a close, long term friend. AIBU to cool the friendship over this and let it drift?

SpidersAreShitheads · 19/09/2023 18:44

horseyhorsey17 · 19/09/2023 18:16

They're all spouting the 'I refuse to condemn him without a fair trial' bullshit because it sounds better than admitting that they are part of his crackpot cult and don't want to think that the cult leader might be a perve.

There's a direct correlation between people who are anti-vaxx, anti-BBC/mainstream media, pro-Russia and believe in the 'Great Reset', and who also think Russell Brand should have a 'fair trial'. They are the same people.

Show quote history

Yes, agree completely.

I don't even think he's particularly effective at "challenging the establishment". He's always had rather a high opinion of himself - the very definition of self-important.

He's just a hairier version of Right Said Fred. They're always bleating on about the latest conspiracy theory too.

The idea that Brand is somehow so influential that he has to be silenced is genuinely laughable. No one I know takes him seriously - he's always been up his own arse, and talking all kinds of nonsense.

There are others who are genuinely far more effective in speaking out against the establishment and yet miraculously, they've somehow avoided rape claims. .....it's almost as if Brand has been the subject of an investigation just because he's a nasty, misogynistic rapist, and nothing to do with his shitty, cult-like YouTube channel.

Maireas · 19/09/2023 18:47

@SpidersAreShitheads and @horseyhorsey17
Absolutely, in a nutshell.

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 18:56

it's almost as if Brand has been the subject of an investigation just because he's a nasty, misogynistic rapist, and nothing to do with his shitty, cult-like YouTube channel.

Why is this such a difficult simple point to contemplate???!

Ffsmakeitstop · 19/09/2023 19:03

borninthe80esss · 19/09/2023 17:25

This really resonated with me.. For anyone who needs to hear it..

It's just something that happened.
Along time ago now.
You live with it.
Like a wasps nest in your roof.
Mostly dormant, occasionally troubling.
It's not that you've made your peace with it exactly.
More like you have your peace and it hasn't taken it away.
It is peripheral.
And then...
The news story.
The pub debate.
Discussions around the kettle in the staffroom.
Facebook comments that you know you shouldn't read.
And then ...
It's you. They are talking about you.
Or they could be.
Might as well be.
Sometimes you join the debate.
Advocating for the stranger that is really yourself.
And sometimes you slink away.
Trying to pretend you haven't seen the words, heard the devils advocacy.
Like your Own body hasn't been on trial.
And then ..
Your peace dissolves.
Just temporarily.
The lump sticks in your throat.
The weight drops into your gut.
The sour electricity returns.
You are suddenly exhausted.
Not so much by the memory itself, but by the sudden piercing clarity.
That half the world would rather believe In the myth of one man than hear the truth of a hundred women.
You read again, Why didn't they speak up sooner?
And you think...
This is why.

This is so true. My situation is slightly different as I was 6 years old when it happened to me. It did actually go to court 30 years later and my case was included as a pattern of behaviour.
What I find quite difficult is I had a friend who I told when I was about 40 and she said "well I would have just told someone at the time" no you really wouldn't. Unless it's happened to someone they have no idea so come out with all these excuses and nonsense.
I very rarely tell people because they can't deal with it and just kind of dismiss it because I'm now 65 and should have got over it.
So to go on I usually don't think about it but this sort of thing brings it all back.
I absolutely do believe the women.

Ffsmakeitstop · 19/09/2023 19:06

That should say sorry to go on.

IslaWinds · 19/09/2023 19:14

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 18:09

Erm no.

It's easier to meet the bar for this because Brand himself made it easy cos he's got a gob on and he behaved on camera like that. Thus the argument for the public interest is easier to make, but the bar to prove the public interest argument remains incredibly high. It's just that Brand was a tool and the BBC and C4s position was untenable - not a case against Brand himself. A public interest case of this nature is extremely unusual.

A similar situation with someone who had a squeaky clean reputation would be much harder to construct a public interest argument to defend against an accusation of rape.

The construction of the documentary and newspaper article isn't just about Brand and that's why it's so much harder for Brand to challenge.

You are suggesting this is all about Brand and the rape allegation. That's not true.

Show quote history

As high as you think the bar is to prove the public would be interested in a story of rape allegations, this journalistic bar (as in standard of proof) is still lower than the bar to actually prove rape in a court of law.

That’s my point that you keep saying “no” to and arguing that the bar to publish a story is higher than or just as high as the bar to prove a crime in a court trial.

It’s really not. It just isn’t. That’s a fact.

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 19:15

IslaWinds · 19/09/2023 19:14

As high as you think the bar is to prove the public would be interested in a story of rape allegations, this journalistic bar (as in standard of proof) is still lower than the bar to actually prove rape in a court of law.

That’s my point that you keep saying “no” to and arguing that the bar to publish a story is higher than or just as high as the bar to prove a crime in a court trial.

It’s really not. It just isn’t. That’s a fact.

Show quote history

Really. No.

And really it's not about rape allegations.

IslaWinds · 19/09/2023 19:17

horseyhorsey17 · 19/09/2023 18:13

No newspaper or media outlet is ever 100% correct. Nothing is infallible. That expectation is ridiculous tbh.

Show quote history

It’s not an expectation. It is a statement of reality and why it doesn’t make sense for anyone to be 100% certain RB is guilty at this moment in time.

derxa · 19/09/2023 19:17

horseyhorsey17 · 19/09/2023 17:37

It still wasn't a trial by media.

He won his libel case against them. And it hasn't exactly damaged his multi-million pound career. Unless I'm wrong and there's still not a whole street named after him in Portugal and he's actually living in a council flat now.

Show quote history

The whole thing took a terrible toll on his mental health and there are still people who believe he is a paedophile. Money is worth nothing if you have lost your reputation. Look at the case of Carl Beech who accused several high profile people of abuse.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/26/carl-beech-vip-paedophile-ring-accuser-jailed-for-18-years
Clearly Russell Brand is a sexual predator but this does not mean that everyone who is making accusations is telling the absolute truth.

Carl Beech, VIP paedophile ring accuser, jailed for 18 years

Beech convicted on Monday of 12 counts of perverting course of justice and one of fraud

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/26/carl-beech-vip-paedophile-ring-accuser-jailed-for-18-years

IslaWinds · 19/09/2023 19:20

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 19:15

Really. No.

And really it's not about rape allegations.

Show quote history

Really yes. This is what you keep saying no to. My original point
like it or not the bar to publish is much lower than the bar to convict someone of a crime in court.

This is a statement of fact no matter how hard you personally think your job is as a reporter, you are held to a lower standard of proof than a barrister for CPS.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 19/09/2023 19:21

DynamicK · 19/09/2023 14:29

The whole entertainment industry is seedy with abuse going on so I wouldn't be surprised if RB rumours are true.
Lots of people are protected by the lack of media reporting when it's pretty much an open secret. Every time something like this comes out, it comes out that everyone in the industry knew already.

RB seems to have stepped away from all that and discusses quite a lot of world issues and brought lots of corporate corruption to light. I'm sure there are many who want him to stop discussing these matters.

Show quote history

What cases of corporate corruption and global issues has Brand exposed exactly?

He's about as knowledgeable on philosophy and politics as the average first year uni student if you're lucky, and even if he was the next John Locke that wouldn't excuse his attitude and behaviours towards women.

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 19:22

IslaWinds · 19/09/2023 19:20

Really yes. This is what you keep saying no to. My original point
like it or not the bar to publish is much lower than the bar to convict someone of a crime in court.

This is a statement of fact no matter how hard you personally think your job is as a reporter, you are held to a lower standard of proof than a barrister for CPS.

Edited

Show quote history

No. You are wrong. And I will maintain that point

It doesn't matter how many times you bleat at me, I'll maintain that position.

HTH.

SchoolQuestionnaire · 19/09/2023 19:23

Hmmm. Can't say I'm a fan of ditching people just because their views don't align perfectly with mine.

I’m perfectly happy for people to have views that are different to mine and I very much enjoy s good discussion. But I don’t particularly want to be around people who disregard the brave and obviously substantive (or the programme wouldn’t have actually gone out) evidence of a number of women because ‘conspiracy’ and ‘establishment’. Frankly they can spout their insensitivity elsewhere.

IslaWinds · 19/09/2023 19:26

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 19:22

No. You are wrong. And I will maintain that point

It doesn't matter how many times you bleat at me, I'll maintain that position.

HTH.

Show quote history

Ok, you can think that. Tell the first barrister you meet that their job is so much easier than yours because the bar as in the standard of proof to publish is so much higher than it is to prosecute and you will get the eyebrow.

Bloom15 · 19/09/2023 19:29

Maddy70 · 19/09/2023 16:01

Both may be true. Every single female that went to his place knew what was in the press , knew he was a narcissist and a misogynist but the lure of power and fame is intoxicating. They went willingly by their own admission. What happened after that is subjective and for the courts not speculation He has also put himself in a position in the media where they want him shut down.

No way would I have gone back to his room . I was in those circles at the time, But you didn't need to be. Every paper carried stories of his promiscuity and misogyny and he was very vocal publicly about it.

Choices were made there

What?!

Victim blaming at its finest

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 19:36

IslaWinds · 19/09/2023 19:26

Ok, you can think that. Tell the first barrister you meet that their job is so much easier than yours because the bar as in the standard of proof to publish is so much higher than it is to prosecute and you will get the eyebrow.

Show quote history

You finished bleating yet.

IslaWinds · 19/09/2023 19:43

RedToothBrush · 19/09/2023 19:36

You finished bleating yet.

Show quote history

Perhaps. I will say that your conviction has only further solidified my reluctance to wholly depend on the veracity of the media.

JayJayEl · 19/09/2023 19:43

Ffsmakeitstop · 19/09/2023 19:03

This is so true. My situation is slightly different as I was 6 years old when it happened to me. It did actually go to court 30 years later and my case was included as a pattern of behaviour.
What I find quite difficult is I had a friend who I told when I was about 40 and she said "well I would have just told someone at the time" no you really wouldn't. Unless it's happened to someone they have no idea so come out with all these excuses and nonsense.
I very rarely tell people because they can't deal with it and just kind of dismiss it because I'm now 65 and should have got over it.
So to go on I usually don't think about it but this sort of thing brings it all back.
I absolutely do believe the women.

Show quote history

Hi 👋 You don't have to apologise for "going on". It's important people share their experiences if they're able to do so, so thank you and well done to you for sharing. I completely understand that this sort of stuff brings lots back for lots of us. It feels all consuming and is incredibly difficult to stay away from. It's even harder to go through it when there are so many people (and women!!) saying abhorrent, awful things. Sending you love.

allhellcantstopusnow · 19/09/2023 19:56

Maddy70 · 19/09/2023 16:01

Both may be true. Every single female that went to his place knew what was in the press , knew he was a narcissist and a misogynist but the lure of power and fame is intoxicating. They went willingly by their own admission. What happened after that is subjective and for the courts not speculation He has also put himself in a position in the media where they want him shut down.

No way would I have gone back to his room . I was in those circles at the time, But you didn't need to be. Every paper carried stories of his promiscuity and misogyny and he was very vocal publicly about it.

Choices were made there

Up next on the 10pm news!

Woman is to blame for being burgled because she owned things and had a house with windows!

Car insurance for accidents to be abolished because we all get into cars knowing they're dangerous!

Hospitals no longer investigating maternal deaths as all women who give birth know it's a risky business!

JayJayEl · 19/09/2023 20:04

allhellcantstopusnow · 19/09/2023 19:56

Up next on the 10pm news!

Woman is to blame for being burgled because she owned things and had a house with windows!

Car insurance for accidents to be abolished because we all get into cars knowing they're dangerous!

Hospitals no longer investigating maternal deaths as all women who give birth know it's a risky business!

Show quote history

👏👏👏

Terrribletwos · 19/09/2023 20:22

SirQuintusAureliusMaximus · 19/09/2023 16:15

@Startingagainandagain Tell your friend to read some of the things that Russell Brand has ACTUALLY SAID HIMSELF

He is an utterly vile individual and I can't begin to understand why anyone would marry him and choose to have children with him. You can only think that they never read anything about him because he was openly stating he was an deeply unpleasant misogynist. And yes it is possible to be deeply promiscuous without being unpleasant or misogynistic. Imagine having this man as your father. those poor children.

There's lots of it out there but here are some:

https://inews.co.uk/news/russell-brand-in-own-words-comedian-books-stand-up-shows-mistreatment-women-2623607

https://metro.co.uk/2023/09/18/russell-brand-joked-raping-someone-resurfaced-clip-19516885/

As the audience fell silent, Brand said ‘oh I’ve raped someone once’ and ‘killed her after’ to which Herring and the audience laughed.
He then went on to joke about the ancient Greeks having sex with children during the creation of mathematics, going as far as to mimic the act.

From his books:

“As I escorted Michaela [a lap dancer who slapped him after sex] through the front door, I felt very strongly that I needed to avenge the slap . . . I spat in her face.” – My Booky Wook

“This girl was a sorry, fair-weather excuse for a prostitute … then the phone rings again, and I, and this is the worst act of misogyny I’ve committed since the spitting debacle, took the phone out of her hand and threw it at the wall.” – My Booky Wook

“What kind of man was I? Treating women in this way? If this is what I’m telling you, can you imagine what’s being left out?” – Booky Wook 2

“I estimate that 80 per cent of women are up for threesomes if you handle the negotiation carefully.” – Booky Wook 2

“Lesley Douglas [the former BBC radio controller] was incredibly tolerant of my behaviour at Radio 2. If you listen to old 6 Music podcasts, you will notice that all the competition winners that came into the studio while we broadcast as a prize were female. This is because there was an additional aspect to the prize which could never be explicitly stated due to the BBC’s rigid policy prohibiting the misuse of the disabled lavvy.” – Booky Wook 2

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12528747/Russell-Brand-holiday-prostitute-father.html

I know! Why would any person want to be in a relationship with this man and have his children knowing what a sick fuck he is? Genuinely mystifying??!!

StormsAreComing · 19/09/2023 21:42

Terrribletwos · 19/09/2023 20:22

I know! Why would any person want to be in a relationship with this man and have his children knowing what a sick fuck he is? Genuinely mystifying??!!

Show quote history

I asked this question earlier today but in much milder terms than this and I was accused of being a victim blamer and then my thread was deleted by MNHQ.

Princessconsuelabananahammock9 · 20/09/2023 00:37

His wife presumably fell in love with him. He seems to have settled down and been law abiding since they met.

If he is guilty of rape, she and their children are victims. She is currently pregnant with their third child. I can't imagine holding her responsible for falling in love with a seemingly dedicated husband and father.

OP, I am a rape survivor, and a childhood sexual abuse survivor. I was also a big RB fan. I suspect he is guilty. I also suspect he was targeted. Two things can be true. That seems beyond the point though if he's guilty.

I don't know for certain. I can't say he's guilty. I can't say he's innocent. Nothing seems certain at this point.

Your friend owed you a kinder response. She doesn't have to believe he's a rapist though. None of us know the truth for certain so either position is formed on past experiences and how much you trust the sources.

HoldOnMiGenna · 20/09/2023 08:01

OP , you may find out that your friend is dim and on a PD spectrum.
Those who are susceptible to Conspiracy theorism and the rendering of millionaires/billionaires as " anti establishment" usually are .
Whatever you do, don't make the mistake of asking your friend face to face to explain to you as if you are a three year old why somenody who via text admitted to being a rapist isn't one and how does one become a millionaire by being anti establishment?

I haven't seen such anger and a dropping of a mask as to having principles of decency than when one of these "anti sheeple, celebrity god follower, truth knowing, can't explain said truth, is " both sides" or victim blaming" types is put on the spot when their god has been caught up in racism, anti semetism or sex offending ( usually these three paradigms) controversies is counter reasoned as to their position.

Original poster

Startingagainandagain · 20/09/2023 08:13

I reread the message that she wrote in details (because It upset me at first read and I did not want to return to it) and the content is definitely meant to say that

he was targeted by the establishment but also that
he was probably was ''off his head'' when the events happened.

To me that just sounds like trying to find excuses for a predator and there is not a single word of empathy about the victims. Taking drugs does not in any way excuse or explain predatory behaviour.

So I am definitely cutting this person off. She send me another message to check how I was doing but I will just ignore any further comms.

OP posts: