NHS shouldn't have to treat gang members / criminals

[Sellias]

I live in a city with lots of crime (drugs, gangs, knife crime)

Groups of idiots 'beefing' with other groups of idiots over postcodes, selling drugs on eachothers patch and perceived disrespect over the silliest of things leading to murder.

I recently watched a documentary about knife crime and it got me thinking about what a terrible state our NHS is in and how people like cancer patients, people with heart problems etc are waiting far too long for treatment to the extent that they can and do die before their treatment even begins.

..these gang idiots though, if they stab or shoot one another an ambulance is called and they get rushed to hospital. It's all hands on deck to save them. Seriously ill people have their much needed surgery cancelled because this stab victim (who sells drugs and causes endless harm in their community) is deemed to need treatment more than they are.

AIBU to think if they chose to live that way then the NHS should have no obligation to treat them? Let them pay for their own treatment with their ill gotten gains.

Disclaimer, I'm not talking about children who of course we should do all we can to save.

I know these people make up only a small percentage of those requiring urgent treatment but it really pisses me off that they bring it on themselves by living the life they do and then expect the tax payer (having never paid tax in their lives)

Drug dealing is what, a few billion pound international industry.

I’m not condoning the drug industry, far from it but it’s wrong/ignorant to write those involved off as feckless guttersnipes.

There are many players who would be excellent employees (logistics, product control, marketing, diplomacy, deal closers, communications, networking) if they had been born into different circumstances.

the drug industry isn’t just a £5 bag on a street corner.

Question for the assembled minds:
Who poses a bigger threat to decent society:

• the people to whom OP refers, or
• people who hold OP's opinions?

Practically speaking I sort of agree, or at least don't disagree, but 1) it's a slippery slope - especially with the NHS being rapidly defunded, it's not hard to see the threshold being lowered and lowered to younger and younger ages, till only a portion of the population is considered worth healthcare 2) in practice, my recent experience is that family members are often strongly medically advised to seek the most painless path (ie non intervention, or palliative) for elderly people, even for conditions that would be optimistic in younger people. Treatment risk % is related to age and this is very persuasively emphasised by doctors.

My personal opinion is that there's something beyond disgustingly amoral about thinking that 'you' have the right to decide who deserves healthcare and who doesn't.

Everyone deserves health care

My father worked in a state hospital where the majority of ER patients had gun or stabbing or other violent wounds. Is he supposed to ask were they the victim or perpetrator? Are they a gang member or innocent bystander? If they aren't responsible have they been in the past?
Oh and you miss pregnant - is it your husbands or did you cheat with your best friends boyfriend? And you with cancer - did you smoke a pack a day or just unlucky or live in a high pollution zone or or or...
You treat the patient, you don't pass moral judgements.
You can't gatekeep - not treating a burglar for falling off a roof and breaking his leg does not mean going to mean the little girl hit by a car is going to be treated faster or better.

YABVU

In that moment of emergency, how can anyone possibly tell if someone is complicit in criminal activity or just happens to be an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time? Plenty of people have been accidentally shot or stabbed... Are first responders meant to make that decision - playing God with someone's life a bit, don't you think?

Should people who don't eat their 5 and and eat enough fibre be treated?

they're the main culprits. who do you think gives the orders its not the 15 year olds being stabbed and chased.

its the nice quiet guy in cheshire with his kids in private school and mum is a SAHM.

but the young kids in deprivation and poverty who are groomed into violence are the once who should die on the street and don't deserve care.

NHS is for everyone. There are no caveats

I'm just thinking out loud.

If this is how you think, please stop. I'm embarrassed for you.

When someone is rushed into a&e with a stab wound, how are they supposed to decide in that moment if the person is a gang member or someone who was randomly assaulted?

not to be rude OP but unless you family member is suffering from a slow acting knife wound they're not in competition for the same services are they?

should we stop ivf because maternal mortality rates are rising in the UK? correlation isn't causation. lots us live in ares with high crime and youth violence.

the answer isn't hanging you people out to die, the answer is trying to create a better society so they don't end up there in the first place.

Of course it's to do with race.

A lot of these lads grow up in environments where the only people they see making good money are dealers. That's why you don't see many Eton schoolboys selling crack.

Can I just say, SM inc MN has been a cesspit these past few weeks with (IMO) restricted compassion for all sorts of groups/circumstances.

It’s reassuring to see so many here today being non-judgemental and seeing the bigger picture on this thread.

That's why you don't see many Eton schoolboys selling crack.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Class A drug use is rife in posh boys schools, doesn't take much imagination to think some would be small scale dealing as well.

And girls who go to expensive private schools are three times as likely to end up in rehab.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/private-school-pupils-drug-alcohol-addictions-more-likely-new-research-money-fake-id-a7766951.html

I used some NHS today, had investigations for something entirely caused by lifestyle. I have tenosynovitis from crocheting too much. Is this OK? I've always worked if that helps at all.

I'm fairly sure there aren't many 12yo boys at Eton out on street corners selling crack with their parents totally out the picture.

Teenage boys dabbling in drugs is very different.

Maybe the OP would like a machine gun just to execute those not deemed to be worthy of living in society 😂

How about those convicted of knife crime actually going to prison? 68% of those convicted of knife crime don’t serve any time. How about the proceeds of crimes are donated to the NHS kitty? Unfortunately tax payers are picking up the tab because there are no repercussions for carrying a knife.

This actually could be an interesting discussion if people didn't just give a knee-jerk reaction. All healthcare to an extent is a finite resource, be it staff, beds, clinical space, donated organs. This was one of the issues raised in COVID times, who got treatment, who didn't if there was more people than staff.

Even on a day to day basis decisions are being made about who to send an ambulance to first and who has to wait, even when clinical need is on a par.

The OP simplifies it too much, but then so does many of the other posters.

They buy, not sell.

That doesn't = that's why they committed crimes.

There are numerous other factors involved.

If every ND or traumatised person was committing crimes, the UK would be fucked quite frankly.

But most ND or traumatised people are not.

It isn't different - it's all part of the drug network, you can't separate one from the other. And many users also deal - maybe just to their mates, but it's not somehow nicer or more ethical or victimless. They take drugs because they can afford it, and probably some because they have loads of money thrown at them but not enough love or responsibility or stability show towards them.

And when private school kids are three times as likely to end up needing treatment from drug addiction - clearly there is something going on there.

If people from Eton could stop fucking up government and the country as well and just fuck off generally that would be good.

A series of interviews with dozens of youngsters reveals many are recruited to drugs via their peer group at school, with older ones acting as dealers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7308039/Britains-private-schools-awash-Class-drugs-according-new-study.html