NHS shouldn't have to treat gang members / criminals

[Sellias]

I live in a city with lots of crime (drugs, gangs, knife crime)

Groups of idiots 'beefing' with other groups of idiots over postcodes, selling drugs on eachothers patch and perceived disrespect over the silliest of things leading to murder.

I recently watched a documentary about knife crime and it got me thinking about what a terrible state our NHS is in and how people like cancer patients, people with heart problems etc are waiting far too long for treatment to the extent that they can and do die before their treatment even begins.

..these gang idiots though, if they stab or shoot one another an ambulance is called and they get rushed to hospital. It's all hands on deck to save them. Seriously ill people have their much needed surgery cancelled because this stab victim (who sells drugs and causes endless harm in their community) is deemed to need treatment more than they are.

AIBU to think if they chose to live that way then the NHS should have no obligation to treat them? Let them pay for their own treatment with their ill gotten gains.

Disclaimer, I'm not talking about children who of course we should do all we can to save.

I know these people make up only a small percentage of those requiring urgent treatment but it really pisses me off that they bring it on themselves by living the life they do and then expect the tax payer (having never paid tax in their lives)

YABU of course and you know it.

How do you check if somebody is involved in gang activity before giving them emergency treatment? Interview them while they're bleeding to death before you operate on them? Many young males who get stabbed are a case of mistaken identity.

And where do you draw the line? If you smoke should you not receive treatment? Drink alcohol? Are fat through over eating?

The NHS is for everyone and that's the way it should stay.

the whole point of the NHS is universal free healthcare for ALL, so you ABU

You are being beyond unreasonable OP.

I do think you are on to a loser here OP I’m afraid as the staff can’t be making moral judgements.

I do sometimes wonder though if there was a way of recouping some costs if/when offenders are convicted. So convicted of shooting a kid who needed a week in ICU then that fine he gets goes up and some more of that money can be funnelled in to the NHS. If they are really drug dealers on £3k a week then this will be fine. The first visit to a doctor after a car crash is chargeable as it’s an insurable event, they send an invoice, so it is possible. This is because shooting someone or stabbing someone is illegal. Currently being fat/smoking/getting pregnant and all those other lifestyle choices that impact the NHS are legal, and that’s where the line could be drawn.

and for those saying it doesn’t impact on other patients, it does if they end up in a higher level ward such that a bed is not available for post operative patient so their operation gets cancelled.

So convicted of shooting a kid who needed a week in ICU then that fine he gets goes up and some more of that money can be funnelled in to the NHS. If they are really drug dealers on £3k a week then this will be fine.

I’m all for confiscating the proceeds of crime, but the NHS being funded by profits made from drug addicted consumers seems icky.

Considering admin I think it would just be cheaper to get a refund from PPE/Michelle Mone et al.

YABVVU

Maybe you have a point. Johnson got treated for covid caught whilst breaking a law he imposed on the rest of us. So under your regime he wouldn't have got treated. Silver linings and all that.

Yeah, this. Once you start refusing treatment to some, where will it ever end? And who's to decide whether someone with lung cancer (for example) brought it on with their smoking, or whether they'd have got it anyway? It just wouldn't work.

my mum worked in a major trauma centre in central london and as a result mostly treated knife crime victims… many of the boys treated have grown up in poverty and been groomed into these gangs and, as i’m sure you know, it’s extremely difficult to get out once you’re in, and as a result, this is the life for many either until they either get killed or put in prison sadly. The frequency that these boys/men go in and out of hospital with no support to leave their situation is a disgrace, but the solution is absolutely rehabilitation rather than leaving them to die! we know that this is possible, just look at the work of martin griffiths and st giles in east london. it’s super important that we ensure that society does not leave anyone behind, and it’s not the nhs’ job to judge anyway!

Silver linings