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AIBU?

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Original poster

NHS shouldn't have to treat gang members / criminals

260 replies

Sellias · 19/09/2023 11:52

I live in a city with lots of crime (drugs, gangs, knife crime)

Groups of idiots 'beefing' with other groups of idiots over postcodes, selling drugs on eachothers patch and perceived disrespect over the silliest of things leading to murder.

I recently watched a documentary about knife crime and it got me thinking about what a terrible state our NHS is in and how people like cancer patients, people with heart problems etc are waiting far too long for treatment to the extent that they can and do die before their treatment even begins.

..these gang idiots though, if they stab or shoot one another an ambulance is called and they get rushed to hospital. It's all hands on deck to save them. Seriously ill people have their much needed surgery cancelled because this stab victim (who sells drugs and causes endless harm in their community) is deemed to need treatment more than they are.

AIBU to think if they chose to live that way then the NHS should have no obligation to treat them? Let them pay for their own treatment with their ill gotten gains.

Disclaimer, I'm not talking about children who of course we should do all we can to save.

I know these people make up only a small percentage of those requiring urgent treatment but it really pisses me off that they bring it on themselves by living the life they do and then expect the tax payer (having never paid tax in their lives)

OP posts:
Willowview · 19/09/2023 19:57

If only life were so easy that there were no other contributing factors to our current circumstances than our own decisions.

People end up in shit situations for endless reasons, and judging them as bringing it all on themselves, as if it were a single life choice just seems a bit too simple, then saying that they don't deserve help is inhumane.

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 19/09/2023 21:32

If you feel this strongly you should donate to local youth club charities, vote for government that will properly find youth offending services and police etc etc etc. that's the way to lesson the impact of drug violence on wider society

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 19/09/2023 21:33

AgeingDoc · 19/09/2023 18:16

Everyone else who lives a saintly, sedentary life, who do nothing more dangerous than put their socks on are welcome to use the NHS facilities.
Well except for the health risks of a sedentary lifestyle and all those accidents that happen in the home. So they're out too!

And to find schools and youth services so that young people aren't tempted into gangs

KimKardashiansKarpetKrab · 19/09/2023 23:16

It is extremely lucrative. Thomas Cashman who was convicted of murdering Olivia Pratt- Korbel is a white confessed drug-dealer who said he was making 3-5k a week dealing cannabis

I doubt Cashman was out serving up on the streets himself. He likely had a network of younger dealers who'd been coerced into county lines in exactly the way I've already described.

My area of work also means I come into contact regularly with kids and young adults caught up in gangs. They get into it because it's the best/only option they have. It's not as if they turned down a place at Cambridge because they can earn more dealing than being a doctor.

Hooplahooping · 19/09/2023 23:46

MatthewsMumFromTikTok · 19/09/2023 14:38

@Hooplahooping my dad is 76 and is still working! Nice!

Delighted. TBC - I Don’t actually think that particularly. Just think OPs statement was utterly lunatic / totally divergent from the whole point of the NHS being free at point of access.

‘morality’ is subjective. But the agreed upon principles of the NHS are more concrete.

we do have to make difficult decisions about cost / benefit of all care. But that’s what the NICE guidelines are for.

’gangs’ are an easy target for someone who doesn’t want to look under the systemic social deprivation rock…

TorqueWrench · 19/09/2023 23:54

ghostyslovesheets · 19/09/2023 17:43

Teenage boys dabbling in drugs is very different why? Who do you think they are buying it off

this 'othering' of criminally exploited young people to distance nice MC people who smoke the odd spliff, do coke at a party etc - it ALL the same steam of supply - they're just not the ones getting stabbed on the street.

I think ambulance staff have enough to do without asking someone bleeding to death 'are you a gang member and do you have proof of age.

14 year olds dragged into drug crime are the 18 year olds of tomorrow - I mean it's not a job where you can just hand in your notice.

Every stabbing victim isn't a bloody gang member - even if they are black ffs

So you think a 16yo boy taking some speed with his friends at a house party on a saturday night is the same as a 12yo standing on a street corner selling crack to a junkie? If so, I don't think we're going to be able to have a very productive discussion.

Wowokthanks · 19/09/2023 23:56

No, the NHS should not pick and decide based on morality of whom they're treating.
They are human beings in need of medical care, which shouldn't be denied, whether they are drug dealers or murderers.
Where would the line be drawn?
Would those who are fat not receive treatment? Those who have had accidents partaking in sport? Imagine the NHS then working through reasons to not treat people because they were undeserving in one way or another.

XenoBitch · 19/09/2023 23:58

YABU
A teen in A&E with a stab wound will never be depriving a cancer patient from care. Whole different departments and logistics.
NHS care has always been based on need, not morals. I have seen prisoners convicted of awful crimes be taken into hospital and treated for their ailments, be it injury or cancer. Everyone is treated the same, and rightly so.

BoredZelda · 20/09/2023 00:04

My point is that a ton of people who do need treatment aren't getting it. Yet if a gang member is stabbed as part of some daft fued they will one thousand percent get the treatment they need, same day, no waiting lists.

I'm pretty sure if anyone turns up having been stabbed, they aren't put on waiting list.

Stompythedinosaur · 20/09/2023 00:44

We either have universal healthcare or we don't. I don't think we should open the door if choosing who within society we can leave to suffer and die. I don't want to live.in a society that thinks like that.

I also think that you don't really understand the complexities of gang involvement and it's links to modern slavery. There are lots of reasons people end up in gangs, and that choice doesn't render their life valueless.

Dotcheck · 20/09/2023 00:50

This is a fabulous idea op.

And while we’re at it, let’s not treat victims of domestic abuse- after all they’ve chosen their life.
People who were in car accidents? If there is any hint of it being their fault, they shouldn’t be prioritised.

Somewhereovertherainbowweighapie · 20/09/2023 00:51

How would a paramedic know who to treat? Imagine someone stepping in to help someone being attacked, gets stabbed then left to die because it was assumed they were part of a gang.

TorqueWrench · 20/09/2023 00:54

Most of the country broke the law over lockdown....

jswnp · 20/09/2023 01:03

What a ridiculous, idiotic take.

jswnp · 20/09/2023 01:06

*Yet if a gang member is stabbed as part of some daft fued they will one thousand percent get the treatment they need, same day, no waiting lists.

How is that fair?*

Nobody who has been stabbed, shot, or critically injured is going to be put on a waiting list ffs.

Are you suggesting that everyone who is taken to hospital following such injury should be vetted before they treat them? Would that not put them on a waiting list...?

TheGhostofLoganRoy · 20/09/2023 01:24

I also live in an area that has a huge problem with gang-related knife crime, and it's almost all under-18s, and mainly under-16s. We average two murders per year in my neighbourhood and not a single one has been older than 16. Which is shameful, obviously, but would hardly work with your policy since gangs recruit and groom minors so heavily.

NorthernLights5 · 20/09/2023 01:35

No I think you're totally wrong. I once worked in a professional capacity with someone who had been forced to run drugs for a big dealer in his area. His brother used to run drugs for the same dealer and was shot and killed in front of him. So this individual was forced through fear to sell drugs. How the hell is a medical professional supposed to work that out when he's brought to A&E because he's been shot or stabbed?

offenyin · 20/09/2023 02:15

I live in a city with lots of crime (drugs, gangs, knife crime)

Groups of idiots 'beefing' with other groups of idiots over postcodes, selling drugs on eachothers patch and perceived disrespect over the silliest of things leading to murder.

I take it you've been watching Top Boy, OP. Grin
Sounds familiar.

In answer to your question. It's rather ethically dubious isn't it and would never work. You realise that now I hope.

Emz6103 · 20/09/2023 02:15

Either everybody counts or nobody counts.
How about life long smoking idiots? Lifelong drinking idiots? People who have eaten junk all their lives? Idiots speeding behind the wheel of 10 tons of metal? Soldiers who kill for the government? (Well they're not protecting us from invasion) cyclists riding without helmets? Hell why have an NHS at all.....

Emz6103 · 20/09/2023 02:22

BoredZelda · 20/09/2023 00:04

My point is that a ton of people who do need treatment aren't getting it. Yet if a gang member is stabbed as part of some daft fued they will one thousand percent get the treatment they need, same day, no waiting lists.

I'm pretty sure if anyone turns up having been stabbed, they aren't put on waiting list.

Would that be a ton of people who smoked all their lives? Spent every weekend drinking and eating junk food? People speeding in cars or cycling in the traffic without a Helmut?

Madwife123 · 20/09/2023 03:08

Can you imagine a society where we don’t treat your heart attack because you are overweight.

We don’t treat your liver failure because you drank too much in your younger days.

It’s a very slippery slope! The NHS treats those who need treatment. It can’t be making decisions about who does and doesn’t deserve treatment

Madwife123 · 20/09/2023 03:21

My job would get a lot easier!

Bleeding to death from a PPH, shouldn’t have got pregnant then.

I can sit and cake all day instead, along with all the other NHS staff that no longer have anyone to treat seeing as they’ve all done something at some point in their life to not deserve treatment.

Or maybe not because we will all be dead as well.

EtiennePalmiere · 20/09/2023 04:55

A 2023 "Modest Proposal" that smacks of eugenics, I hope this is satire

HappiDaze · 20/09/2023 05:28

Well it wasn't for gang members shooting each other in the States you wouldn't have lots of certain body parts to use and most everyday surgeries

Bet you didn't know that

Willowview · 20/09/2023 05:29

@Unexpectedlysinglemum not sure if you're reply was meant for me, but I'm doing a degree in social science in order to try and help lessen inequality, it's social research this year. I hope to make the smallest of differences, so I am trying.