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AIBU?

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Original poster

"Its like downtown Kabul round here"

344 replies

PyongyangKipperbang · 19/09/2023 02:34

This has been bugging me all day.

Took my father (72) to a hospital appointment today as my mother was suffering with a migraine.

As we drove from our village through town he made this comment. It was school run time and we had just driven past two women who were wearing traditional muslim attire , wearing full matching outfits, one in black and one in the most stunning purple. Forgive me for not using the correct names but I would rather not try than get them wrong. There were a fair few families dressed similarly, but more that were in jeans and trainers!

Our small town is very very multicultural. My ex husband is Jamaican by heritage, British by birth as ex MIL and late FIL were both part of the Windrush generation. There is a large Asian community and now a lot of Eastern Europeans too.

Me - What?! They follow a different religion and dress that way, so what? And at least their dd's get to go to school.

Him - Oh well if youa re going to be like that about it

Me - Yes I am. In Kabul W X Y Z (my dd's, his GD's) wouldnt be allowed to go to school and would be forced to wear certain clothes, unlike here where we just let people be.

Then he said "well thats what I think and I can say it if I think it" and I said "Not in my car you cant. and if you think that they should all go back to where they came from, that includes Z (youngest DD, mixed race)"

Silence for a second and then "Thank you for the lift, I will get out at the lights and walk the rest of the way" I said to stop being childish. Then a dickhead cut me up and I called him as such and father said "Oh I bet all the bad drivers are only white british....." in a mumble. I said "Well as it happens, that one was" dropped him off at the hospital and all was done.

He has been cobby with me since. He needed a couple of favours later today as he can no longer drive and Ma couldnt because of her head and it was couched very much as "Your mother needs this and I cant go" rather than, as it would normally me "would you do me a favour?"

I wasnt wrong to pull him up on this was I? He isnt "elderly", just fucking "ist" when it suits him and inclusive when it doesnt. For example, DD1's partner is autistic which is thinks is made up and attention seeking...."apart from [him]". He has always been like this but I strongly suspect I am going to get the silent treatment for a while (unless he needs something). And yes, he does read THAT paper.......

We are very close and I love him very much and he me. But when Mr Daily Hate comes out......not so much..,,,

OP posts:
Iwantcakeeveryday · 19/09/2023 09:16

Pollyputhekettleon · 19/09/2023 09:14

There's no need to swear just because you don't understand something. You were free to ask for clarification. Although I suspect if you thought about it honestly for a few minutes you'd understand it just fine.

Show quote history

Nope. Swearing isn't the issue here, racism is. WHat do you mean then?

Spirallingdownwards · 19/09/2023 09:16

Sorry but I don't think a 72 year old gets a "that generation" pass anymore. They were born in the 50s they aren't "old and don't know better" or "of a different generation"!

SoftSheen · 19/09/2023 09:17

This isn't something I'd ever say. However, I think YABU to overreact in the way that you did.

FWIW, as a previous poster has already pointed out, your user name is worse...

SoShallINever · 19/09/2023 09:18

We were on a ship last week when it was approached by an open boat full of returning day trippers. An older man opposite us, loudly announced "hey up, it's the bloody asylum seekers, anyone got a gun", he and his wife then fell around laughing at their own "joke".
I can't imagine how anyone would think that it was ok to say this. He clearly thought everyone within earshot would share his views. Age is absolutely not an excuse and actually he was probably not much older than my DH.

Pollyputhekettleon · 19/09/2023 09:20

Iwantcakeeveryday · 19/09/2023 09:16

Nope. Swearing isn't the issue here, racism is. WHat do you mean then?

Show quote history

Swearing is an issue for me, and there's nothing you can do about it. I don't engage with people who swear at me, particularly when they're also playing dumb.

Wetblanket78 · 19/09/2023 09:20

My uncle is like this he's 73. He was staying with me when he had some work done on his house. We were watching Corrie and he came out with where's she from? He was talking about Alina who the actress who plays her is obviously British born. I said she speaks like she's lived in the UK all her life.

Another time we were talking about the covid deaths and he starts going on about us living in one of the most over populated countries with everyone living on top of each other. My mum wasn't like that neither is our other uncle. And I don't remember our nana or grandad speaking like that so not always to do with a generation. I know for certain if my nana or mum were still around they would have given him what for for coming out with that.

Iwantcakeeveryday · 19/09/2023 09:22

Pollyputhekettleon · 19/09/2023 09:20

Swearing is an issue for me, and there's nothing you can do about it. I don't engage with people who swear at me, particularly when they're also playing dumb.

Show quote history

I think your racism is far more offensive than my swearing. So is it just muslims and swearing you take offence too?

Spinet · 19/09/2023 09:24

I suppose you could have asked him exactly what he meant. But I personally wouldn't want to have that conversation on a casual drive to the hospital so I'd have said 'I don't want to hear it.'

The argument that 'the great cultural melting pot doesn't work' is all very slick and I suppose people are entitled to think that but when you translate that to 'that foreign person shouldn't be walking down my high street' then it's not all right. Then it becomes about individuals and their characteristics not a general opinion that you're 'entitled to'. People don't symbolise cultures, they're just people.

Pollyputhekettleon · 19/09/2023 09:29

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Iwantcakeeveryday · 19/09/2023 09:29

The argument that 'the great cultural melting pot doesn't work' is all very slick and I suppose people are entitled to think that but when you translate that to 'that foreign person shouldn't be walking down my high street' then it's not all right.

I also think that British people should pause for a minute and think of our own history and the cultures and countries we invaded and changed beyond recognition. To see people say that they don't think multiculturalism works is ironic given British history. I can only conclude they think British culture is superior.

Finlesswonder · 19/09/2023 09:30

@MoonShinesBright
No I object to the kind of white saviour thing that happens when you get someone really desperate to prove their non racist credentials by overly complimenting differences. So in this case, the OP randomly points out this particular woman's "Muslim attire" was a stunning colour. Its completely irrelevant to her point, but she's jotted it down so we all know how totally non racist she is.
Reminds me of a friend I had who would always wax lyrical about another friend's hair. We also had a mutual friend who had seriously gorgeous thick red curls but these never warranted a comment, because the point wasn't to compliment anybodys hair, the point was to virtue signal.

Spinet · 19/09/2023 09:34

Iwantcakeeveryday · 19/09/2023 09:29

The argument that 'the great cultural melting pot doesn't work' is all very slick and I suppose people are entitled to think that but when you translate that to 'that foreign person shouldn't be walking down my high street' then it's not all right.

I also think that British people should pause for a minute and think of our own history and the cultures and countries we invaded and changed beyond recognition. To see people say that they don't think multiculturalism works is ironic given British history. I can only conclude they think British culture is superior.

Good point.

AlexandriasWindmill · 19/09/2023 09:36

I can't imagine starting a racist thread in AIBU about my DF if I loved him very much. You either challenge his behaviour or you don't. If this is a new approach from you then it's odd you started it on the way to a hospital appointment and then posted here about it.
And if you always call him out - which you should do each and every time - then why do you need a MN thread?
I'm always uneasy when posters quote racist interactions in detail to get gold stars. It feels a bit like they want to say racist stuff but use others as the excuse.

Abracadabra12345 · 19/09/2023 09:37

eurochick · 19/09/2023 06:53

His comment was surely just a figurative way of saying "there are a lot of people in traditional Muslim attire round here now". And it sounds like he was probably correct. It was just an observation.

That's how I read it

oakleaffy · 19/09/2023 09:38

This reply has been deleted

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That's a ridiculous and sweeping generalisation.
there are loads of over 50's who aren't racist, and tons of under 50's who probably are.

Racism {or lack of it} has no age attached to it, or class, or gender.

Pollyputhekettleon · 19/09/2023 09:41

Spinet · 19/09/2023 09:24

I suppose you could have asked him exactly what he meant. But I personally wouldn't want to have that conversation on a casual drive to the hospital so I'd have said 'I don't want to hear it.'

The argument that 'the great cultural melting pot doesn't work' is all very slick and I suppose people are entitled to think that but when you translate that to 'that foreign person shouldn't be walking down my high street' then it's not all right. Then it becomes about individuals and their characteristics not a general opinion that you're 'entitled to'. People don't symbolise cultures, they're just people.

People's clothes generally do symbolize the culture/s they belong to, and it was the connection between clothes and a particular culture that he was commenting on.

To say that multiculturalism doesn't work depends on what you mean by 'work'. It's actually a pretty wild claim to say that you could take very culture that exists on earth, move members of those cultures into one polity and encourage them to maintain those cultures, and expect the result to be more positive than negative. It's literally never been done in the history of our species. It was one of many utopian social experiments of the 20th century. It's kind of surprising to find that people still support it, when it was at least officially rejected about a decade ago now by all the main western European governments. And you 'suppose' people are 'entitled' to agree with that? Really?

I think what you mean though is that having people from different cultures living in one place can work. Your use of the phrase 'melting pot' implies you're actually talking about integration policies, which are the opposite of multiculturalist policies.

Willmafrockfit · 19/09/2023 09:47

walking in kilburn high road, 30 years ago, my own dm, then 58, said, Oh its just like Kenya, i dont think she was being derogatory but i was embarrassed

whatwasthatgrandma · 19/09/2023 09:48

givemeasunnyday · 19/09/2023 05:01

It's also patronising to suggest that it is up to you to challenge people's views. People are entitled to their own opinions, whether those opinions are right or wrong.

OP's father merely made a comment, maybe it wasn't the right thing to say, but he is allowed to say what he thinks. It hardly means he is going to join a white supremacy organisation. It was a throwaway comment, and OP acting in the way she did is never going to change his attitude.

Show quote history

He can have all the opinions he wants, in his hand. No-one is obliged to listen to them. He isn't allowed to say what he thinks to people who do not want to hear the horrible thins he thinks. He can find someone else to day them to.

Willmafrockfit · 19/09/2023 09:49

i think you are being too quick to take offence op

Willmafrockfit · 19/09/2023 09:50

"Its like downtown Kabul round here

is all he said

Pollyputhekettleon · 19/09/2023 09:50

oakleaffy · 19/09/2023 09:38

That's a ridiculous and sweeping generalisation.
there are loads of over 50's who aren't racist, and tons of under 50's who probably are.

Racism {or lack of it} has no age attached to it, or class, or gender.

Show quote history

There are huge statistical variances in racist attitudes by class, gender, race and age in every country. Interestingly they're not the same in every country. In some countries younger people are less racist, in others they're actually more so. Not sure what the position is in the UK.

Interestingly, by some measures India is one of the world's most racist countries.

India among world's most racist countries, says survey - India Today

India among world's most racist countries, says survey

Britain is one of the most racially tolerant countries on the planet, a survey claims.

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/asia/story/india-among-world-most-racist-countries-britian-tolerant-survey-163396-2013-05-16

BansheeofInisherin · 19/09/2023 09:50

I suppose this is why most black and brown people on here hang out in their forums. So they don't have to listen to "Hey, as long as he hasn't joined the KKK, it's A-OK".

BansheeofInisherin · 19/09/2023 09:53

Ah here comes the whataboutery.. Nobody said the UK is racist as a whole. Not one soul.

readbooksdrinktea · 19/09/2023 09:53

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Willmafrockfit · 19/09/2023 09:53

so op would prefer him to say Its very multi cultural here?

just count to ten op