(Covid) To think these recommendations are bonkers?

[NoCharnce]

So the government commission into how to memorialise the Covid pandemic has recommended the government implement “A UK-wide day of reflection should be established and held annually.”

Other recommendations include national memorials (10 sites already identified!), oral histories and museums plus additional funding for local authorities to set up their own memorials.

I can’t be the only one who thinks this is nuts and hope the government ignores the recommendations? I genuinely cannot believe people get paid to produce this crap.

@JenniferBooth

But seriously, how would someone get themselves into this position??

If you are so ill and immunosuppressed.

I have one friend who was able to establish wfh.

Another who changed jobs to be able to wfh. Unfortunately they later died, despite it all.

We were all CV, even then I never would have considered going into a supermarket. We cut off contact from people not following guidance for over a year to protect DC.

I can’t understand why a CEV person would feel forced into putting themselves at enhanced risk… and then wouldn’t raise it with an employer/seek legal recourse.

I'm not being nasty. By definition clinically extremely vulnerable means covid could easily hospitalize you and perhaps kill you if you catch it once let alone 10 times and yet this poster is still working, going to crowded places and complaining about people being pressurised to wear a mask. Not plausible.

@WomblingTree86

I think the only reasonable explanation would be that some CEV prioritised their personal liberty to be able to do xyz over their personal safety.

Seeing my friend as a corpse so young cleared me of any vigilante notions of rising up against restrictions and putting myself at risk for the sake of an hour in tesco, having a pint in the pub or having a few extra quid in my pocket. Literally one of the worst experiences of my life to see their body, I will never get over it.

My point of view was I didn’t want to kill off DC/DH or anyone else or leave my DC without a mother. So I was altogether dull and stayed away from potential harm.

Admittedly my educational background with study of zoonotic disease did play a part too because I’d read so much of other countries previous experience.

But yeah, some people won’t have experience of prior study, or bereavement, or have any of the motivators I had to want to comply with guidance to keep myself safe. Up to them. But not for me.

That’s true I think. The CEV I knew just didn’t go out. All shopping was delivered and she was ‘quarantining’ the shopping where she could and then putting it away with gloves.

I do sympathise with @JerryLovesMargo experience, but yes I think that is an argument supporting your personal liberty (where your personal safety was then compromised) - rather than personal safety. And I’m afraid I’d prioritise personal safety - and as stated above there were some extremely vulnerable people who were completely isolated and unable to go out at all.
I think I’ve forgotten how bad it was, but it was a knife edge of life/death. Getting the cancer treatment required on time and then being acutely careful that she didn’t get Covid. I gave the example earlier of having to get nappies, and being intimidated and laughed at for having a mask/trying to be careful about distancing. I did sit and just cry afterwards in the car.

I think there are spitting incidents that I read about for people being asked to wear a mask too (aimed at bus drivers or shop workers).

I've had covid 10 times because I'm immunosuppressed.

And of course I need to work. What choice do I have? Millions of vulnerable people have had to work throughout the pandemic. Tens of thousands have died, including people I know.

Why are you being so nasty? And why are you being so disbelieving and deeply unpleasant to someone who is CEV - you know, the very type of person you wanted to 'protect' back in 2020?

I don't have any family apart from DH and DD, or friends, not that it's relevant. And unfortunately, not all jobs can be done from home. I did of course have the option not to go into work at all, but that would have meant resigning. So, not really an option.

I said it then and I'll say it now - not everyone has a support network, can drive, has the option to WFH. People who did have those options during the pandemic were utterly disbelieving that others did not. It must have been such a relief for the CEV/mask exempt who were able to avoid crowded public places to be able to do so. But tens of thousands of teachers, retail staff, hospitality staff etc could not.

Why is that so hard to believe?

And however politely you try to 'word' it, calling a disabled person a liar when they're telling you their lived experience is pretty crap.

I'd happily supply details of all my positive tests and the AVs I've been given and my various diagnoses which make me CEV. But why should I prove myself to a stranger online - particularly one who no doubt was all about protecting the vulnerable during the pandemic, but is now quite happy to suggest I'm lying about my health.

Yes. This thread and some of the attitudes on it is the perfect memorial to a really shitty, terrifying time for CEV people. Privileged, fit and healthy people able to wear masks and WFH and avoid buses and busy workplaces telling us we're doing vulnerability wrong.

Covid did make me that ill, prior to vaccination. I have been given antivirals since to avoid becoming that ill again, and I've had eight vaccinations (which don't work so well at preventing infection in immunosuppressed patients but do make illness less severe).

I have never once complained about people being pressured to wear a mask. I've 'complained' that those who couldn't shouldn't have been spat at, threatened or abused, which is a different thing. Do you think they should have been?

And I'll say it again - CEV people still had to go to work. Teachers and retail staff didn't have the luxury of WFH. Nor did they have the option to simply stop working. It's why so bus drivers, for example, died.

Why isn't all that 'plausible'? Why are you calling me a liar?

No, not 'personal liberty'. Being able to pay bills, or have my fortnightly blood tests.

I barely left the house unless it was for work or hospital appointments. I was terrified all the time. I was on antidepressants.

I wasn't an antimasker (I really, really wanted to wear one and tried so hard to do so, or find an alternative).

'A few extra quid in my pocket' indeed. As if going to work was a choice in order to buy pretty things.

And you know what, you're quite right. Why am I on MN, when it's upsetting?

I've been here since 2010 and it's been a massive support to me in the past. During the pandemic the climate here changed for the worse, with ableist attitudes such as the ones displayed on this thread which still unfortunately persist. Posters cannot comprehend anything that doesn't chime with their own lifestyles or beliefs. The idea that vulnerable people had no choice but to go out to work during a pandemic is anathema to them - they must be lying, because after all, they themselves would never have done that.

Well, you're wrong. DD is a teacher and lost several colleagues. I lost colleagues. DH did. Who do you think was dying? It wasn't just care home residents. Tens of thousands of vulnerable people died, many of whom caught covid because they had no choice but to go to work or use public transport.

I literally could not wear a mask and neither could tens of thousands of others. People who were gagged during sexual assault, for example, who were also told on here they were lying or that they needed to get over it. People with TN were laughed at because they wet themselves when they lose consciousness (yep, that was me). Parents with autistic children were told to keep their DC at home for the sake of others.

Nah, I'm done here. Being called a liar when I've been talking about becoming extremely ill from covid, when talking about my disabilities and how difficult it was being CEV during the pandemic - nah.

I'll leave you to it.

@JerryLovesMargo Apologies. I can see it was really hard for you, and I hope my posts didn’t come across as a personal attack. Your experience is important.

You state that you’re ‘not anti-mask’ - but I think your situation might be used by others here to advocate an anti mask argument. And I think it’s that which is causing people’s heckles to rise.

@JerryLovesMargo

Not calling you a liar at all, absolutely no way.

But I am appalled at what happened with your employer/that you felt you had no other option but to put yourself in harms way.

I think I’ve already stated my whole family is CV so not fit, healthy or privileged.

My CEV friends some of whom were civil service, teachers, essential retail were all accommodated either by wfh or they were facilitated to go on the sick/furlough, yes this meant lesser wages but again they prioritised safety over liberty.

One decided to leave her position and applied for a wfh civil service job. As for us I had to move to wfh because both myself and the DC are CV and this was accommodated, DH was furloughed from retail and didn’t take up any other work because it was all face to face in some capacity. We are still dealing with the financial consequences of this, but we are alive.

That’s why I find it shocking that you weren’t supported by your employer in any way, nor did you feel there were other options open to you to adapt. Honestly I would have sought legal advice.

Peopke who are severely immunosuppressed don't catch it much more often if at all. They just get much more ill if they do so if someone caught it several times their health would be severely effected by now not only from covid itself which would be bad enough but maybe also if would have made their disease much worse.

I’d like to echo the apology of @WhalePolo, @JerryLovesMargo if you felt offended in any way.

Genuinely, I do really empathise with your position; amongst my family and friends there are a lot of people with conditions such as MS, cancer, neurological issues, crohns etc etc

What I was trying to say was how atypical your experience was, from that of many CEV who were either supported by their employer or chose to seek more suitable employment.

We were only CV and we accepted we had to take a mortgage holiday, and 20-30k lost earnings (still in debt!!). It was really awful.

But not as awful as your position of feeling you had no choice but to put yourself out there. So sorry this happened to you.

@WomblingTree86

People who are immunocompromised are more likely to develop clinical infection on two counts.

1. Their threshold to develop infection is lower, they’re not able to fight off much, so wouldn’t need as many exposures/as high a dose of covid to get sick.

2. They can’t mount a sufficient response to the vaccines so only have limited protection. Essentially they rely on herd immunity via either vaccination or natural spread of infection in others in their community.

I’ve caught it 5x and I’m only CV. And I can attest that my health has been severely affected by it via the covid and worsening of other conditions. For someone who has had it 10x this would be the case too. But life goes on and we still have to get up and get on.

That's my point. You have had it 5x and you health has severely effected and you are only CV. It doesn't stack up that someone who is severely immunosuppressed would catch it 10 times and still be working and complaining about masks as they would just be too ill by now. Life doesn't necessarily always go on. I am severely immunosuppressed btw.

@WomblingTree86 would depend on the variant caught, number of exposures, viral dose, person’s genetics/prior exposure history/specific health condition, and other factors related to the virus/environment/host as to the severity of infection.

Personally I appear to have been walloped by it, but I still have to get on with caring responsibilities for multiple disabled people in the family and work.

My CEV friend who got it and died only had very mild symptoms, no more than a cold; it was the aneurysm months later that killed them.

So to say all CEV people will always be very adversely affected in terms of the symptom profile is erroneous (aneurysms aside).

CEV stands for clinically ^extremely" vulnerable to Covid. By definition if someone has had COVID ten times, has only had fairly mild symptoms on most of those occasions (I assume that's the case if someone is still working), then they weren't actually extremely vulnerable to Covid.

@JerryLovesMargo I'm sorry, that's really tough.

On another thread you say that you don't work and live in social housing.

On another thread you say that you don't work and live in social housing

Its been THREE YEARS Maybe her circumstances have changed. Maybe her employer got the hump at her catching Covid and having time off
Lets not forget that people have been happily voting for the erosion of workers rights for the last 13 years.

She said " I had to go to work and use public transport to get there. The CEV people you know were extremely fortunate to not need to go out to work or use buses and trains to get there. Unfortunately, that was a privilege many millions didn't have during the pandemic, CEV or otherwise."

I was surprised at that given she also states that she says she has lived council house for 20 years and rent is under 500. The council wouldn't have evicted her. She also lives with her DH who works and mentioned her DD who is a teacher so would be quite a high earner. Doesn't sound like she needed to risk her life to earn money and also probably didn't need to visit shops/restaurants/pubs (where she claims to have been spat on).

If its housing association believe me they would have no qualms about evicting her. There is very very little true council housing now Most stock has been transferred over.

Perhaps she wanted to go to the shops She had the right to do so That right wasnt negated by the fact that she couldnt wear a mask

She said it was a council house. They didn't evict people who were CEV and officially shielding.