Trial by media circus

[Maatandosiris]

The first thing to say is anyone who has committed rape absolutely needs to be brought to justice. The criminal
justice system needs to become more effective in protecting all victims of crime.

However, AIBU unreasonable to think that this weekends story about RB has been sinister for many other reasons, none of which are to do with RB.

Firstly the SM posts whipping people into a frenzy of some big reveal like some secret album release. Clues planted through various carefully placed posts, giving just enough detail to let people work things out (plus making people suggest other names) . It was an absolute circus, in the case of rape it turned accusations of serious crime into entertainment, no thought how anyone would be affected, whether ultimately guilty or innocent (maybe c4/The Times were trying to get new stories). Extremely bad taste at one end of the spectrum, devastating for innocent people at the other.

The ultimate agenda of both The Sunday Times and C4 is to make money. That’s it, neither is set up as the states arm of justice. There’s no inbuilt checks and balances. Yet somehow they are allowed to name an individual, accuse them of crimes (and effectively say they are guilty) without any of the safeguards and checks and balances of the criminal justice system applying.

People have lost all sense of justice. We have a man accused of something, an hour and a half of heavily hyped TV which holds some accusations but mainly a character assassination, The Sunday Times probably selling many more copies/getting many more subscribers with more of the sane one sided accusations.

Even on Mumsnet we have people already calling him a Rapist, people feeding into the frenzy of “he’s a creep”, “he’s a sex pest” etc etc. in other words, convicting him in their minds before this has gone anywhere near a court or jury.

How will this ever now be a fair trial? How will they find a jury who can 100% not have their views affected by this whole circus? If he is guilty will there ever be a safe conviction, how can we be confident that real justice has been done? What’s the risk of any conviction being overturned? This is not in the interests of either the alleged victim or the alleged perpetrator.

Questions are circulating all over SM as to the agendas at play. It’s fairly clear that the Sunday Times has been searching out victims. What were they saying to these people? What promises have been made?

if a crime has been committed this should be with the criminal justice system not Saturday night prime time TV with an associated heavy advertising campaign.

Im not sure whether RB is guilty or innocent, but that’s not what this post is about. AIBU to think that the way this witch hunt (which is what it is regardless of whether RB sinks or floats) is abhorrent and flies in the face of justice and that this has far wider and scarier implications for society than just this case. Who or what is next?

"I hate the media but I also hate all these so called celebs who come crawling out the woodwork saying he did this to me too, just for their 5 minutes of fame."

Words fail me.

Hallelujah

I also hate all these so called celebs who come crawling out the woodwork saying he did this to me too, just for their 5 minutes of fame.

….or possibly because he did abuse them too (who btw?)? Too far a reach for you? Much easier to presume it’s those uppity harlots looking to make a quick buck eh.

I have read the article and agree with the OP. This should be tried in the legal system and not the newspapers. Your response is aggressive. He may have done it or may not have but the legal system should be establishing this - not journalists no matter how much or how long they have worked on this.

The build up to the BIGGEST news story of the year was frankly disgusting. The poor women who have come forward - to have their trauma sensationalised, must be horrific on so many levels.

Investigative journalism is to be applauded. Monetising the story of rape and abuse is absolutely disgusting.

If we went along with this thinking Weinstein would still be abusing women and Savile would still be be venerated.

Women use don’t use their gentle words when they live in a society that offers no protection or recourse against sexual predators.

well I’m shocked.

How do you know they haven't given the evidence to the police? It's usually what happens in these circumstances.

Goodness me pulling out the "who will think if the children" line is low I'm sure they won't hear or see that their dad is an abuser because hopefully they won't have free access to the Internet and TV .

This thread is nuts.

Some of the replies appear to have been cut and pasted from the comments on Brand's twitter and Youtube accounts.

Y'know, speaking of conspiracy theories.

You make a fair point, it is unlikely they would see justice. As a SA survivor myself I certainly didn't.

But what they will have now is a lack of justice and public scrutiny speculating about their credibility. Followed by a criminal investigation and possibly having their perpetrator vindicated in court. That is a whole lot more traumatic for them.

We need to get angry and more vocal about the justice system, not look to the media for unregulated verdicts.

I say alleged because despite what happened to me, I still want to see the rule of law prevail. If we don't have the protection of the presumption of innocence then we're all at risk.

This is exactly how Weinstein ended up in prison. Journalists investigated, reported, then charges and trial and conviction.

It's not a media circus, it's a serious and extensive journalistic investigation. Into criminal acts that these women would never, as individuals, see justice for in a court.

I hope it brings forward more victims who feel courageous enough to take him on.

Do you seriously think the justice system works for victims of rape and abuse?

Of course it doesn't work, but the answer to that is to improve the system, not to indulge in trial by media
Quite apart from anything else, a moment's thought would have revealed that even if cold hard evidence turned up, this whole thing has probably now wrecked any chance there may have been of a proper trial

Never mind though; it's all bread and circuses for those who like hammering their keyboards with "Guilty!!" on the basis of very little knowledge

I agree.

Dispatches could have assisted the women to come forward to the Police and CPS to make the allegations and then filmed the process to demonstrate the failings of the justice system in prosecuting a sexual offences.

That would have assisted them, and helped other women by shining a light on the failings of the criminal justice system. That could have triggered reforms that are much needed and would have a really positive impact in our society.

Instead they've gone for a media frenzy approach with maximum sensationalism.

Of course it doesn't work, but the answer to that is to improve the system, not to indulge in trial by media
Where will the impetus to 'improve the system' come from without investigative journalism?!

Quite apart from anything else, a moment's thought would have revealed that even if cold hard evidence turned up, this whole thing has probably now wrecked any chance there may have been of a proper trial

Why? One documentary vs decades of his narrative that he's promiscuous but always with consent?

Yes and I think the most shocking thing about all of this is the clips I have seen of his shows were he is chocking about enjoying blow jobs where the girl is chocking and gagging and her mascara runs. All the audience seems to be in hysterics, as many women laughing as men, is it any wonder that we live in a misogynist society when people pay to see this humour on stage but now everyone wants to burn RB in the street without a trial. It makes no sense, focusing everyone’s hatred on one man is not going to change anything, we need to be focusing on all of society and its treatment of women.

Quite apart from anything else, a moment's thought would have revealed that even if cold hard evidence turned up, this whole thing has probably now wrecked any chance there may have been of a proper trial

Why? It's exactly what brought down Weinstein. Big story in the media, then a trial.

Well, considering the vile creep clearly told us exactly who he was in his stage act- I think he brought it on himself.

I don't know who those people were in the audience who found his act funny - but I hope they're cringing now. i hadn't seen it before and it told you all you needed to know.

Autumnleaves it is perfectly possible to say that there are issues with misogyny in society that were highlighted by the content of RBs performances AND to think it is good job that he has been called out and that as a result other men in positions of fame and power might think twice.

In an ideal world we would have a criminal justice system and police system robust enough to assist victims of rape and sexual abuse but it's not an ideal world and , for one, don't think we should let men get away with the acts that he committed as a result of it.

These women wouldn't have got justice had they gone to the police. It's extraordinary that you think they would have.

Plenty of people get away with it.

Look at Noel Clarke. He was accused by no less than 20 women and it was a huge news story. No charges have been filed due to lack of evidence and he's now suing the Guardian for breaking the story. Everyone is now saying how unfairly he's been treated, bear in mind he isn't necessarily innocent, just hasn't been charged.

if a crime has been committed this should be with the criminal justice system not Saturday night prime time TV with an associated heavy advertising campaign.

You clearly have no experience of the criminal justice system, and you've never actually listened to people who have been through it.

Read some of the experiences on this thread: "Why didn't they go to the police? (TW)" and then think again why women don't go to the police and courts.

Given our appalling criminal justice system, I think the only real options left are: do nothing or talk to the media. It's up to individuals which they choose, but it's fine with me when people share their stories (with the evidence they have) via the media.

By the way, we are allowed personal opinions on things that haven't gone - or never will go - to court! The Russian invasion of Ukraine hasn't gone anywhere near a trial, and yet I have my own opinions on it. Based on gasp media reporting.

Weinstein? Epstein? Those cases came about after prolonged investigative journalism.
Ever heard of Watergate?
We can trust that Channel 4 and the Sunday Times's lawyers will have been all over this to ensure it's watertight. It's not very little knowledge, it's an in depth exploration of how this misogynist got away with reprehensible behaviour - and it exposes the media system for letting him do so.

it will only take a neighbours say so or employers say so, or shop workers say so for you to be guilty

Well the law isn’t like that in rape cases, precisely because they are one persons word against another.

The whole system is a shambles. I’m glad they highlighted these woman’s experiences. There is power in numbers

Of course it doesn't work, but the answer to that is to improve the system, not to indulge in trial by media

so without the media how are you gaging when a system needs to be improved?

clearly rumour or word of mouth aren’t going to be acceptable if journalism that passes libel laws for publication doesn’t cut it. What platform do you propose, specifically for victims of sexual crimes, could be used to highlight the need for improvements. Bonus points if it also raises the profile enough to gain public support.

Where will the impetus to 'improve the system' come from without investigative journalism?!

It almost certainly won't, and that's the value of journalism done properly, as some previous investigations have been where they've focused on issues rather than personalities - even when, as with Brand, they're loathsome

While no lawyer, I believe the danger is that any defence brief would almost certainly argue that a media trial will have created influence which any jury would struggle to overcome, and that therefore a trial wouldn't be fair

I'm sure we can all agree that far too many men get away with this sort of thing, but let's not risk even more doing so by creating issues which might make them even harder to convict

What platform do you propose, specifically for victims of sexual crimes, could be used to highlight the need for improvements. Bonus points if it also raises the profile enough to gain public support

If enough people genuinely cared we could use parliament, Cornettoninja
God knows it's riddled with faults, but it's still the best route we've got for actually enacting change rather than just wishing for it

Trouble is, I'm not convinced enough really do care - at least not beyond the effort it takes to hammer away at a keyboard over the latest exciting but transitory headline, and that's apart from the point that too many men believe the Brand types are "just being a bit of a lad, and she didn't have to sleep with him"