Trial by media circus

[Maatandosiris]

The first thing to say is anyone who has committed rape absolutely needs to be brought to justice. The criminal
justice system needs to become more effective in protecting all victims of crime.

However, AIBU unreasonable to think that this weekends story about RB has been sinister for many other reasons, none of which are to do with RB.

Firstly the SM posts whipping people into a frenzy of some big reveal like some secret album release. Clues planted through various carefully placed posts, giving just enough detail to let people work things out (plus making people suggest other names) . It was an absolute circus, in the case of rape it turned accusations of serious crime into entertainment, no thought how anyone would be affected, whether ultimately guilty or innocent (maybe c4/The Times were trying to get new stories). Extremely bad taste at one end of the spectrum, devastating for innocent people at the other.

The ultimate agenda of both The Sunday Times and C4 is to make money. That’s it, neither is set up as the states arm of justice. There’s no inbuilt checks and balances. Yet somehow they are allowed to name an individual, accuse them of crimes (and effectively say they are guilty) without any of the safeguards and checks and balances of the criminal justice system applying.

People have lost all sense of justice. We have a man accused of something, an hour and a half of heavily hyped TV which holds some accusations but mainly a character assassination, The Sunday Times probably selling many more copies/getting many more subscribers with more of the sane one sided accusations.

Even on Mumsnet we have people already calling him a Rapist, people feeding into the frenzy of “he’s a creep”, “he’s a sex pest” etc etc. in other words, convicting him in their minds before this has gone anywhere near a court or jury.

How will this ever now be a fair trial? How will they find a jury who can 100% not have their views affected by this whole circus? If he is guilty will there ever be a safe conviction, how can we be confident that real justice has been done? What’s the risk of any conviction being overturned? This is not in the interests of either the alleged victim or the alleged perpetrator.

Questions are circulating all over SM as to the agendas at play. It’s fairly clear that the Sunday Times has been searching out victims. What were they saying to these people? What promises have been made?

if a crime has been committed this should be with the criminal justice system not Saturday night prime time TV with an associated heavy advertising campaign.

Im not sure whether RB is guilty or innocent, but that’s not what this post is about. AIBU to think that the way this witch hunt (which is what it is regardless of whether RB sinks or floats) is abhorrent and flies in the face of justice and that this has far wider and scarier implications for society than just this case. Who or what is next?

Your word choice tell me a lot about you.
Oh do carry on, this is fascinating.....

Of course it's all true. I agree that the over hyped build up was in very poor taste and I'm not sure it's been handled very well in terms of protecting the victims. Totally agree that the Sunday Times and C4 only care about profit. But it's all very clearly true and is definitely newsworthy. The criminal justice system isn't fit for purpose when it comes to rape and sexual abuse so repeatedly trotting that out is just silly.

No because whenever he gets a sniff of one of his victims even considering going public he gets his lawyers to send them a threatening letter. Personally I think that this sort of action ‘is abhorrent and flies in the face of justice’.

And guilty or not, he definitely is a sex pest, as demonstrated by his own words and actions that have been recorded and were played back on the Dispatches programme.

Brand has spent decades broadcasting his 'defense' via the world's media! He started the trial by media by pre-empting the accusations being made public. Hence the title of the documentary "in plain sight" And at the same time using his wealth to pay legal teams to shut down the voices of his victims. His 'apologies' in his texts are an admission of wrong doing.
This documentary was a tiny step towards redressing the balance in opportunity to speak.

Well hopefully all this publicity and the media investigations will lead to a criminal prosecution. Just because a lot of RB's behaviour was not illegal, it was reprehensible at least and he does need to be held account.

Women so often have no voice so if a powerful media body can speak for them, all power to them

You’re yet another ignorant MNer who can’t be bothered to read the Sunday Times article about this. It’s been a joint three year investigation about this.

Many ignorant posters have chosen to ignore the damage done by Operation Yewtree which involved trial by media and keyboard warriors and eventually was found to be a total fantasy from the sick mind of Nick. There will always be the ignorant whose view is 'No smoke without fire', these men will never be free of the allegations, even after death.

Yabu

This was not speculation or tittle tattle.

It's a four year long investigation with witnesses, evidence, thorough fact checking and sworn witness statements

How can you be sure that it’s all true?
Nothing has been investigated yet, let alone reported to the police?

Trial be media circus is not the same as exposé by investigative journalists.

The programme also exposed C4 as implicated in enabling RB

Is Jimmy Savvile innocent?

I don't think people realise how much proof these organisations have to have to even dream of printing/running something like this. They haven't just received an anonymous post-it note and broadcast it.

I completely understand why victims dont go to the police

I work with a demographic who are extremely vulnerable and offences are often committed against them (and by them) and although we encourage and support police reports, they often feel they cant or dont want to yet (or at all)

The crime is still logged, so its a recorded rape or sexual assault or whatever it is but wont progress any further, there wont be a supporting statement or investigation. I completely understand that and know that I would do that myself. There are a huge number of rape and sexual assault statistics which fall into this category, not because the police or CPS havent taken it further but because the victim feels unable or uncomfortable with wanting to discuss it further. Its understandable.

However what you cant and shouldnt then do, is have a pseudo investigation outside of the legal parameters. If you choose not to support a statement/prosecution then you've chosen to deal with it outside of investigation (ie with therapy or support etc)

OP, how did Weinstein eventually end up in prison? That started out as a "media circus", did it not?

Did anyone say that about Prince Andrew?

The legal system is so fucked up when it comes to rape. Even the rapes that are reported barely ever result in convictions and proper penalties, but we do know that the number of rapes massively massively outnumbers the number of false accusations. In this instance, given the number of allegations and the 'known secret' it's been for so long, I think it's fair enough for people to call it for themselves rather than wait to see if the justice system actually works for these women, probably putting them through hell in the process. People who believe he's innocent are welcome to still employ him or go to his gigs. I can't muster much sympathy for him versus all the women who never get justice.

So many gaslighters on this thread. Why would any woman report her rape to the police, given that rape has been effectively decriminalised?

The Times having the goal of making money should reassure you these claims have been properly checked out and evidenced.

The cost to them if RB could successfully take legal action is huge; both in legal fees and compensation. They wouldn’t print something like this if they weren’t extremely confident it’s true.

I think it’s great. I’m sick to death of women not getting justice when they’ve been raped and abused. If the police and courts won’t support women, at least the media will. If you don’t want this to happen, campaign for rape cases and victims to be treated differently via the legal system.
I hope you apply this same energy to other crimes though, all those true crime shows that talk about suspects for example, or investigative journalism in general when it relates to any crime?

Behave OP. It's a robust investigation and arguably better than what the overstretched justice system can offer. Rape is effectively decriminalised.

The overall messaging is net-benefit. The are a lot of men out there thinking they are entitled to women's bodies with coercive tendencies who prey on vulnerable women. They don't consider themselves rapists (because eventually they get a small yes or mute acceptance) but they are. I'm glad the consequences of their actions is writ large across all the media.

For about 10 years I have been calling my husbands mate "rapey". He picks up women at the end of the night when they are very drunk and unlikely to say no. He's past 40 and doesn't seem to be interested in a partnership relationship. It's only sinking in now (past year) that this is problematic and previously just been dismissed as "he's shy", "he has high standards" "he's a bachelor".

I'm very happy that things are changing. If you don't want to be accused of rape don't act rapey!

The courts have utterly and comprehensively failed victims of rape and sexual assault. The media is now the only viable forum in which the crimes of famous rapists can be tried.

Mike Tyson went to prison for rape. He still has an entertainment career.

In principle I don’t agree with ‘trial by media’ either. Unfortunately that’s all we have at our disposal, as there are a huge amount of reasons why this was the only way. Read the article, watch the documentary - each pathway was investigated. These are not random anonymous accusations that haven’t been verified. The Times/Dispatches team have stated at each point exactly how they’ve verified the information presented. Would the police have tied all of these cases together as a pattern of behaviour across international borders and spent three years finding proof of rape? I think we all know the answer is no.

Weinstein took years of investigations and collaboration of many many victims and journalists to bring to any kind of justice. They did the work that the police just can not (or will not) do. Watch She Said movie for a condensed version of events, or read/listen to Catch and Kill by Ronan Farrow. Victims are not listened to and police have a combination of contempt for victims and inbuilt powerlessness.

Lots of Epstein’s victims went to the police, watch the documentary series. Even the most dogged officers could not achieve anything as they were blocked from helping the victims and tied up by bureaucracy, corruption and red tape.

I mean eh . Harvey Weinstein a disgusting dirty old man, Russell Brand edgy, flouncey sex addict it's soo unfair poor Russell.

Why didn't his victims go to the police?

Maybe they did.

@N3philim because I believe women over a man who's always made horrible misogynist jokes, admitted to treating women like shit, had issues with drug, alcohol and sex addiction, lots of power and lots of money.

Do you honestly think its more likely that all these unconnected women have independently made up stories to get at him? And he's innocent? Honestly?

You show a touching faith in the "criminal justice system"

Have you ever been raped by a famous man and successfully brought him to justice?

That being said you make some good points. The media are complicit in this kind of culture being allowed to flourish. They are hypocrites.