Trial by media circus

[Maatandosiris]

The first thing to say is anyone who has committed rape absolutely needs to be brought to justice. The criminal
justice system needs to become more effective in protecting all victims of crime.

However, AIBU unreasonable to think that this weekends story about RB has been sinister for many other reasons, none of which are to do with RB.

Firstly the SM posts whipping people into a frenzy of some big reveal like some secret album release. Clues planted through various carefully placed posts, giving just enough detail to let people work things out (plus making people suggest other names) . It was an absolute circus, in the case of rape it turned accusations of serious crime into entertainment, no thought how anyone would be affected, whether ultimately guilty or innocent (maybe c4/The Times were trying to get new stories). Extremely bad taste at one end of the spectrum, devastating for innocent people at the other.

The ultimate agenda of both The Sunday Times and C4 is to make money. That’s it, neither is set up as the states arm of justice. There’s no inbuilt checks and balances. Yet somehow they are allowed to name an individual, accuse them of crimes (and effectively say they are guilty) without any of the safeguards and checks and balances of the criminal justice system applying.

People have lost all sense of justice. We have a man accused of something, an hour and a half of heavily hyped TV which holds some accusations but mainly a character assassination, The Sunday Times probably selling many more copies/getting many more subscribers with more of the sane one sided accusations.

Even on Mumsnet we have people already calling him a Rapist, people feeding into the frenzy of “he’s a creep”, “he’s a sex pest” etc etc. in other words, convicting him in their minds before this has gone anywhere near a court or jury.

How will this ever now be a fair trial? How will they find a jury who can 100% not have their views affected by this whole circus? If he is guilty will there ever be a safe conviction, how can we be confident that real justice has been done? What’s the risk of any conviction being overturned? This is not in the interests of either the alleged victim or the alleged perpetrator.

Questions are circulating all over SM as to the agendas at play. It’s fairly clear that the Sunday Times has been searching out victims. What were they saying to these people? What promises have been made?

if a crime has been committed this should be with the criminal justice system not Saturday night prime time TV with an associated heavy advertising campaign.

Im not sure whether RB is guilty or innocent, but that’s not what this post is about. AIBU to think that the way this witch hunt (which is what it is regardless of whether RB sinks or floats) is abhorrent and flies in the face of justice and that this has far wider and scarier implications for society than just this case. Who or what is next?

not forgetting that Andrew Sachs phonecall, despicable

My rapist is walking the streets.. because the police are completely fucking useless.
If I was given the opportunity to go on Channel 4 and name and shame him I most definitely would!
Nice to see a thread on here where the majority of comments stand by the victims.. was starting to despair.

@DoDoDoD

I never said I liked him / agreed with what he has said in the past or that he was innocent.
I will wait for the trial and verdict before forming an opinion.
Don’t be naive in thinking that investigative journalists are carting out their research/ investigations for the good of the victims, they are doing it to hopefully make a name for themselves and line their own pockets.

Their findings are interesting but need to be presented in court.

Just watched it & think there's no way a single one of those women could have taken on a legal challenge against RB. Neither is there a chance that they could have found each other & tackled him together.

It was uncomfortable viewing & I believe all those women. The CJS is not fit for purpose & I really hope being involved in this programme has given them some sort of reparation for what happened to them.

Massive respect to Daniel Sloss for speaking up. If dispatches doesn't hear from many other women who have been victims of RB, I'd be surprised.

I think the evidence is strong...he even apologised to a victim.
Two victims both expressly said he glazed over- two strong connecting observations.

What it shows is yet again a lack of transparency and covering up in this industry.

It is shocking what things he did on radio 2- as a public service funded by the taxpayer, answers need to be forthcoming. Yet another reason to stop funding the BBC an outdated institution

That said the law states innocent until proven guilty.

A woman I know abuser was arrested because of this, a few ex girlfriends were questioned and part of the investigation and then he was convicted. Recording a sequence of behaviour seems common sense to me.

Re Moorov doctrine if someone reports an offence and no further action is taken due to lack of evidence they still may be contacted by police years later when similar allegations are made. This can be enough to support a prosecution.

I didn't say you liked him. I said legal trial aside, the programme and newspaper coverage is worthwhile in hopefully drawing attention to the culture that has prevailed in protecting 'talent' even when they're as awful as RB who was so bad that female comedians had to warn one another about him, and Channel 4 mooted the idea that women shouldn't work on his show in case he assaulted them. Publicly sexualising female colleagues, broadcasting a call to a grandfather to tell them he's had sex with their grand daughter, leering over young women, making biscuits in the shape of his wife's genitals on Great British Bake Off - none of that's illegal but hopefully media companies and the public turn away from it.

Are you aware that 99% of cases never see a trial and by saying you'll wait to see the verdict in a court room you are calling 99% of rape victims liars?
The amount of people who don't get this baffles me.. the statistics are out there for all to read.

The Police will now have to investigate this given the amount of detail now in the public domain. The CPS will then decide to prosecute or not, based on whether the evidence meets the legal standard. If they don't choose to prosecute, what message does that send to the victims and does that open them up to legal action from Brand?

If they do choose to prosecute, I wonder if this will be a repeat of the Kevin Spacey trials and Brand will walk away with no consequences. If Russell Brand is acquitted on these charges then it will give him more of a platform than before and possibly with a much larger following.

If he's acquitted, as a victim, would you feel satisfied that your story was out there via Dispatches or would you be re-traumatised that your assailant walked free so publicly and you were not believed. This is the dangerous nature of releasing information into the public domain before trial, it jeopardises your chances of winning at trial and leaves you open to more scrutiny.

This needs to be investigated by the police though in order to be valid. The documentary had a clear angle and was hardly going to be objective.

Brand has been broadcasting his appalling attitude to women openly to the world in the context of 'entertainment' for years. He's had decades of putting his 'case' forward first.
This programme has investigated beyond Brand's own gaslighting narrative. The programme accuses institutions as well as individuals which is essential in the bigger picture and the future for safeguarding. They've given individual women the opportunity to voice their experiences.
Yes he has been accused of criminal acts which in an ideal world would be addressed by the legal system. But it's been explained many times why that system does not work for sexually assaulted women! Especially when they accuse much more powerful men.

Unfortunately for victims, this seems to be the only way to tackle these celebrity abusers who have lawyers and fixers that can pick them off and take them down, one by one. It's only when the whispers become a noise that others will feel safe enough to tell their stories, and I strongly suspect that we will be hearing them start to speak over the next few weeks.

We all know that 'innocent until proven guilty' might be a useful legal concept - it's vital for judicial processes. BUT, a courtroom and proven criminality are not the only ways we make assessments or judgements on behaviour and whether someone has done something wrong. RB is deeply litigious, so let him sue the programme makers and contributors - he had a week to take out an injunction but he didn't. What he has done is try to encourage the conspiracy theorists to see this as another assault by mainstream media on him.

YABVU - the journalists who have spent years working on this story are not motivated by money. the amount of legal checks that will have been done are huge. Libel laws in this country favour the wealthy - for this story to have got over the line they must be very very very secure in their allegations and the evidence behind it. just look at recent high profile cases to show how difficult it is to charge someone with sexual assault never mind get a conviction.

For three years of investigation, I would have expected a much better presentation of actual evidence.
Misogyny is never pretty.
He said a lot of misogynistic stuff, but presenting misogynistic comedy as evidence is lazy.
If a trans person gets attacked, will Gervais be implicated?

The sex addiction thing? Sex addiction is about sex. Rape is generally about power.

He has a big platform that is antiestablishment. I know that's a massive problem, and absolutely driving this.

Not saying he's innocent, but that 'evidence' can't be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

Amen. You nicely worded my own thoughts 🙏

"Who's next?"

People with significant allegations against them that have been investigated to the point of more than reasonable proof where lawyers that specialise in the field are confident the case is water tight.

That's why it's not trial by media.

I won’t be commenting any further on this thread after this, I’ve said all I’m going to say.
I won’t be reading any more articles either and will wait for the verdict, That’s my choice.

I will say though that I was shocked he actually found someone who agreed to marry him, I honestly don’t understand the mentality of some women, there are SO MANY red flags with this man.

Why anyone would choose him as a life partner and to be the father of their children is actually beyond me

She was very young when she met him. 19 I think.

ETA: this was in response to above post about Weinstein et Al being successfully brought to justice (seemingly ignoring the investigative journalism that got most of them there)

If you know about these cases, then you’ll be aware that “trial by media” is what brought most of them to the attention of the authorities and formed the basis of the CPS/international argument. The cases you quote in many cases required years of donkey work from hard working journalists determined to piece together info about predators hiding in plain sight. It wasn’t a case of women reporting and then being immediately taken seriously!

I can't help but feel that the victims will be the ones who will suffer all over again because of this documentary.

They've allegedly been abused by Brand, clearly been used by the media and now will need to go through a high profiled criminal investigation, with the potential of not being believed all over again.

Legal opinion on whether something is watered tight doesn't mean that it will win in court. They have no clue what the defence will produce. But equally, their chances of securing a conviction has been scuppered by going through the media.

So far, they've been used by everyone for their own purposes.

I think if the allegations had been reported to police and if at that point the police either treated the victim badly or didnt progress for reasons that didnt accord with the information provided (ie just swept it under the carpet) or in fact if it went to CPS and they didnt progress it, again for poor reasons, then it might make sense to have a journalist pick it up

But Im not sure if the above happened

I feel sorry for his children, they are innocent in all this and quite young. They're having their lives ripped apart right now. Too young to understand but seeing Daddy all over the papers and TV must be confusing for them. Whatever you think of RB his children don't deserve their innocence being ruined.

I hate the media but I also hate all these so called celebs who come crawling out the woodwork saying he did this to me too, just for their 5 minutes of fame.

People saying the victims (I’m not fucking saying alleged) have scuppered their chances of seeing justice. Lol. They never would have seen justice anyway!! There is no justice when it comes to violence against women, it’s practically a sport it seems.