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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Trial by media circus

644 replies

Maatandosiris · 17/09/2023 09:42

The first thing to say is anyone who has committed rape absolutely needs to be brought to justice. The criminal
justice system needs to become more effective in protecting all victims of crime.

However, AIBU unreasonable to think that this weekends story about RB has been sinister for many other reasons, none of which are to do with RB.

Firstly the SM posts whipping people into a frenzy of some big reveal like some secret album release. Clues planted through various carefully placed posts, giving just enough detail to let people work things out (plus making people suggest other names) . It was an absolute circus, in the case of rape it turned accusations of serious crime into entertainment, no thought how anyone would be affected, whether ultimately guilty or innocent (maybe c4/The Times were trying to get new stories). Extremely bad taste at one end of the spectrum, devastating for innocent people at the other.

The ultimate agenda of both The Sunday Times and C4 is to make money. That’s it, neither is set up as the states arm of justice. There’s no inbuilt checks and balances. Yet somehow they are allowed to name an individual, accuse them of crimes (and effectively say they are guilty) without any of the safeguards and checks and balances of the criminal justice system applying.

People have lost all sense of justice. We have a man accused of something, an hour and a half of heavily hyped TV which holds some accusations but mainly a character assassination, The Sunday Times probably selling many more copies/getting many more subscribers with more of the sane one sided accusations.

Even on Mumsnet we have people already calling him a Rapist, people feeding into the frenzy of “he’s a creep”, “he’s a sex pest” etc etc. in other words, convicting him in their minds before this has gone anywhere near a court or jury.

How will this ever now be a fair trial? How will they find a jury who can 100% not have their views affected by this whole circus? If he is guilty will there ever be a safe conviction, how can we be confident that real justice has been done? What’s the risk of any conviction being overturned? This is not in the interests of either the alleged victim or the alleged perpetrator.

Questions are circulating all over SM as to the agendas at play. It’s fairly clear that the Sunday Times has been searching out victims. What were they saying to these people? What promises have been made?

if a crime has been committed this should be with the criminal justice system not Saturday night prime time TV with an associated heavy advertising campaign.

Im not sure whether RB is guilty or innocent, but that’s not what this post is about. AIBU to think that the way this witch hunt (which is what it is regardless of whether RB sinks or floats) is abhorrent and flies in the face of justice and that this has far wider and scarier implications for society than just this case. Who or what is next?

OP posts:
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WarriorN · 22/09/2023 10:39

That IS a very big story. Of international societal significance. But Russell Brand is just one of many, many case study examples.

Absolutely, totally, all of this.

WarriorN · 22/09/2023 10:40

And this isn't trial by media, this is a trial OF the media.

It's so big because the media enabled and fucked up.

Even after savile!

RudsyFarmer · 22/09/2023 10:40

I’ve been watching linked clips of him
in recent new stories and he really was vile wasn’t he? Telling a 16 year old that her birthday party should have a legal sex theme. I mean come on. The only reason he got away with any of his lewdity was because he was young and attractive. If he had been a portly middle aged balding man they would have thrown him out the studio.

WarriorN · 22/09/2023 10:41

So in a weird way, all those people banging on about the conspiracy theories brand wants them to believe about big media needing to shut him up - big media are being exposed and found to be failing.

Chickenkeev · 22/09/2023 10:47

I am so not seeing anything attractive about him at all!!! I know it's subjective but yuck yuck yuck!

Its5656 · 22/09/2023 10:56

I don't find him attractive, He looks dirty.
I must say though that after watching dispatches I'd forgotten how attractive Bob Geldof is. Not for everyone but I've always admired him and thought it was great that he called Brand out.. Did anyone notice RB face in that moment.. He didn't argue back or even look shocked. Total creep.

WarriorN · 22/09/2023 10:56

I think Bernard Manning and Jim Davidson were as gruelling and vulgar. There has always been a thread of comedy that thrives on shocking and pushing the line of what's acceptable

Doon mentioned something about Davison on woman's hour yesterday that slipped out accidentally.it wasn't edited out when I listened on iPlayer

RedToothBrush · 22/09/2023 11:06

When is National Wap Your Willy Out At Work Day?

Only this seems to definitely be a thing in media circles. This is not the first time we have heard this. It is also not the first time we've heard that this is mentioned to other staff but it doesn't go anywhere.

Why?

Chickenkeev · 22/09/2023 11:07

Its5656 · 22/09/2023 10:56

I don't find him attractive, He looks dirty.
I must say though that after watching dispatches I'd forgotten how attractive Bob Geldof is. Not for everyone but I've always admired him and thought it was great that he called Brand out.. Did anyone notice RB face in that moment.. He didn't argue back or even look shocked. Total creep.

I love Bob but I'm Irish so not objective. Between Live Aid and calling out 'police and priests' so early on you couldn't not love him!

WarriorN · 22/09/2023 11:22

When is National Wap Your Willy Out At Work Day?

I believe there's another entertainer known for this on occasions. Not sadowitz who I believe warns you his set is problematic and is on stage.

Flashing is of course about power, humiliation and control

Its5656 · 22/09/2023 15:13

WarriorN · 22/09/2023 11:22

When is National Wap Your Willy Out At Work Day?

I believe there's another entertainer known for this on occasions. Not sadowitz who I believe warns you his set is problematic and is on stage.

Flashing is of course about power, humiliation and control

I've been flashed at a couple of times, Both times it was around 6-10ft away and its scary. I believe this woman is saying Brand come into her office toilet.. It's horrific really that he then went on air and laughed about it.

Iwasafool · 25/09/2023 09:41

DoDoDoD · 21/09/2023 08:40

Why is 9/11 and some unknown detail to do with Saville relevant to Russell Brand?

If you read the post I was replying to it is pretty obvious.

DoDoDoD · 25/09/2023 22:23

Iwasafool · 25/09/2023 09:41

If you read the post I was replying to it is pretty obvious.

What’s obvious? You said some people made false claims about 9/11 - are you insinuating that’s what’s happening w Russell Brand? Bit of a stretch!

Iwasafool · 26/09/2023 11:10

OK, if you can't figure it out I suppose I need to spell it out.

Someone said, If it wasn't for the "media circus" dozens of Savile's victims wouldn't have come forward.

Note I wasn't the one who brought Saville into it.

Which is perfectly true but I pointed out the problem with that I don't remember how it ended but weren't some women investigated for false claims about Saville? I think there was a compensation fund and there were fraud allegations. That is the other side of naming someone and inviting accusations.

Reply asking for more information Can you link to any articles on this? I don't remember it and can't find any record.

I couldn't find the result but I did post a link to where the attempts were reported and other public cases where fraudulent claims were made, as follows This is about the investigation. I can't find what the outcome was.I said originally I couldn't remember the outcome, maybe it all went quiet.

There were also fraudulent claims after 9/11, here's one of them ^www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-nypd-sergeant-pleads-guilty-911-benefits-fraud^

Then you asked what the connection was, I think it is pretty obvious but if you can't follow that I can't really help any further other than to say someone said a positive of it being public was other victims/survivors would come forward, I pointed out that like with most things in life there is another side to that coin and the fraudsters come out of the woods and make the case even more difficult to sort out. Examples of that were the Saville and 9/11 fraud cases.

Former NYPD Sergeant Pleads Guilty To 9/11 Benefits Fraud

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-nypd-sergeant-pleads-guilty-911-benefits-fraud

DoDoDoD · 26/09/2023 18:36

Iwasafool · 26/09/2023 11:10

OK, if you can't figure it out I suppose I need to spell it out.

Someone said, If it wasn't for the "media circus" dozens of Savile's victims wouldn't have come forward.

Note I wasn't the one who brought Saville into it.

Which is perfectly true but I pointed out the problem with that I don't remember how it ended but weren't some women investigated for false claims about Saville? I think there was a compensation fund and there were fraud allegations. That is the other side of naming someone and inviting accusations.

Reply asking for more information Can you link to any articles on this? I don't remember it and can't find any record.

I couldn't find the result but I did post a link to where the attempts were reported and other public cases where fraudulent claims were made, as follows This is about the investigation. I can't find what the outcome was.I said originally I couldn't remember the outcome, maybe it all went quiet.

There were also fraudulent claims after 9/11, here's one of them ^www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-nypd-sergeant-pleads-guilty-911-benefits-fraud^

Then you asked what the connection was, I think it is pretty obvious but if you can't follow that I can't really help any further other than to say someone said a positive of it being public was other victims/survivors would come forward, I pointed out that like with most things in life there is another side to that coin and the fraudsters come out of the woods and make the case even more difficult to sort out. Examples of that were the Saville and 9/11 fraud cases.

I thought it might be what you were getting at but can’t see how anyone could make such a ridiculous argument. You can’t even back up your Savile comment with any evidence!

Iwasafool · 26/09/2023 18:54

DoDoDoD · 26/09/2023 18:36

I thought it might be what you were getting at but can’t see how anyone could make such a ridiculous argument. You can’t even back up your Savile comment with any evidence!

So you don't think people ever make false claims, particularly if money is involved? How lovely.

You don't think the people who make false claims don't bog down investigations? Seriously?

You don't think that when people are exposed It doesn't make things harder for genuine complainants? You think some people won't query everyone because of the fraudsters?

People making false claims go back to WWII and I'm sure beyond. I gave a link about 9/11. I gave a link about the claims in regard to Saville although I couldn't find an outcome but to be honest there is so much Saville stuff that isn't a surprise.

The whole point was someone else mentioned Saville not me, someone else was pointing out the positives about things going public and I was just pointing out that isn't always positive.

I really think you are just being awkward so I will leave you to it.

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2023 13:35

Spoiler: NO ONE has been paid with regards to Brand.

Iwasafool · 27/09/2023 13:49

RedToothBrush · 27/09/2023 13:35

Spoiler: NO ONE has been paid with regards to Brand.

No one said they had.

Can you really not follow the chain? Really.

THIS WASN'T SPECIFIC TO BRAND. DID YOU GET THAT.

This was about someone pointing out the positive of things going public as others might come forward. The downside of that is nutters coming forward claiming to be victims, either for financial reasons or for attention or just because they are nutters, this then clogs up the investigation and if they are found out it makes other people sceptical.

I'm sure that's beyond you but never mind.

DoDoDoD · 28/09/2023 23:21

Iwasafool · 27/09/2023 13:49

No one said they had.

Can you really not follow the chain? Really.

THIS WASN'T SPECIFIC TO BRAND. DID YOU GET THAT.

This was about someone pointing out the positive of things going public as others might come forward. The downside of that is nutters coming forward claiming to be victims, either for financial reasons or for attention or just because they are nutters, this then clogs up the investigation and if they are found out it makes other people sceptical.

I'm sure that's beyond you but never mind.

It's a straw man argument - it's far far more likely that genuine people will come forward and help the investigation and hopefully some justice. Perhaps perhaps perhaps some people might fib - but the benefits far outweigh the risks. You're not even able to demonstrate that it's a very widespread problem, so your comments seem completely pointless.

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