Why didn't they go to the police? (TW)

[CynicalUsee]

I am sick of hearing this being trotted out in relation to victims of sexual assault. The only person the victim is responsible for is themselves and their own recovery, that is it. No one else. They aren't responsible for potential future victims, they aren't responsible for the rapist. If they choose not to report the crime that is 100% ok if they choose to go to the police that is 100% ok.

What anyone chooses to do with their recovery is their choice. For a group of people who have suffered due to having choice removed from them why are people so hellbent on creating more trauma by laying on guilt and removing more choice away from them?

...the media went to them. And there were undoubtedly women the media spoke to who declined to be involved.

It often takes years to assemble a cohesive case on these things. The media has options a court does not.

“The victims desire”.

It's nothing to do with desire. Wow.

Because the trauma that victims experience as part of the justice process outweighs the risk that justice will not be served.

Until the rate of conviction improves and the process does not involve using previous evidence of sexual activity of the victim as part of the perputrators defence, women will not report their attackers.

Because the media actually listens which is quite disgusting when you think about it.

This.

Several brave victims spoke up and one male in the industry stood up and supported their accounts of his behaviour. There are text messages where he apologised. And yet still so many people are asking ‘why didn’t they report’ or suggesting that it’s a witch-hunt and that the (anonymous) victims are seeking fame or a payout, as though being disbelieved and hounded for being victimised is some sort of status symbol.

It’s utterly heartbreaking and I honestly don’t know where we go from here to tackle these attitudes.

The comments I've seen about not reporting and one on the first thread about it "it isn't rape just because you regret it the next day" have really upset me as a survivor. I was raped as an 18 year old student by another student and when I went to my head of department as I was ready to quit my course he said "every one has drunken regrettable sex" and that destroyed me for a long time. I wasn't going to go to the police if the the first "official" I told seemed to think it wasn't rape.

One of the women even went to a SARC in LA but said at the time she didn't want to report it as the celebrity element made it to difficult. I think she was the woman who had a text from him saying sorry and her reply saying she said No. She just couldn't face the inevitable fall out. Yes he might have been convicted but her life would also be destroyed.

It's a line trotted out by misogynistic people who believe such things will never happen to them. Ever.

I don't understand it either OP. Unless you were raped violently enough to leave wounds, or someone else saw or heard, why on earth would you put yourself through it knowing they'll never get convicted.

@donkra I get that but what persuades the women to share their experiences on this platform & now? Power in numbers maybe. Or are they just pawns in a media ratings race?? I watched the She Said film and there shadows of this here.

Yes, especially the timescales of the alleged attacked by Russell Brand. The early 00s weren't exactly a period of time where anyone was concerned about consent from women.

If you google "police" and "rape" the results will bring up the many rapes perpetrated by police officers.

Anybody who asks why women don't report to the police is either an idiot or being deliberately obtuse.

I have been dwelling on this all morning. I can completely understand why the victims haven’t gone to the police. I’m fortunate to have never been sexually assaulted so I don’t know what I would do, but I think in these circumstances I’d also be reluctant to go to the police.

But I feel very uncomfortable with the media can just be used as an alternative to a broken criminal justice system.

For what it’s worth I completely believe these victims and agree RB is guilty. But it’s not actually for me to decide that in this country, it’s for a jury and then for a judge to decide the punishment. I don’t know where that leaves us though when the criminal justice system is so dire. I don’t know if the times could take their evidence to the police and if the police could press charges without the victim’s support / giving evidence? I’m guessing not.

I think I err on the side of thinking that if you’re willing to open up to the media then you should be willing to give the same evidence to the police so that actual justice can be done. But I also understand that the police and court process is so much more intrusive and that you rightly don’t want every single aspect of your life examined.

So I don’t really know what the answer is but yes I agree it’s reasonable to not to to the police, I just don’t feel entirely comfortable with the media aspect. Although how then you raise awareness of such a predator without the media I don’t know. Sorry for the jumbled response, have been turning it over on my head for a few hours trying to see what I think of it all!

Can the police get a conviction based on this? Would they not have to basically start the same investigation from scratch? (Genuinely don’t know!)

The only responsibility a victim has is to their own recovery. Not to be ripped to shreds by the friends of the perpetrator, the police and randomers.

This is exactly how I feel. It's the media over the broken legal system element that's so wrong. Not least because the media can choose which 'stories' they tell.. what about the millions of women raped by non-celebs.. I am s as k ok so hugely wary of the media's agenda, even when seemingly reporting important stuff like this.

I can tell you why people don't go to the police, because it's your word against theirs .Most sexual offenders are known to the victim. Often these creeps have planned / reasoned that nothing will happen to them even if it's reported. They also select their targets and will spread round rumours that the target was easy and willing . They prepare the ground . They don't hassle people if they think there will be some comeback on them . People do what they think they can get away with .

...Are you fucking serious? So, having lived through being raped by a famous man, knowing they have essentially nil chance of legal justice, they also better make sure they talk about it at the exsct right future time, else their motives are suspect?

Yes, most likely the backing of major media sources and the existence of multiple other victims has helped them decide they can deal with being part of the story, just as it did for Savile's many victims. Some of them have also probably spent many years recovering and rebuilding themselves and now feel strong enough to deal with the onslaught that no doubt awaits them. Others will have decided it's not worth it to them and opted out. That is an intensely personal decision, and one I fully understand either way.

what about the millions of women raped by non-celebs

As someone raped by a nonceleb who is pretty confident he has other victims, I feel deeply happy every time a rapey celeb gets nailed to the wall.

I've moved on and accepted that the criminal justice system will probably never come for the fuckface who did it to me, but it makes me happy when it comes for others.

@donkra why are you angry at me..?! I'm not doubting the allegations...just questioning the whole process.

We cannot tell women how they must react after they have been raped.

We can however do all we can to make sure every rape claim is taken seriously, and that women feel adequately supported to do whatever they feel they need to do in terms of potentially seeking prosecution and attempting to deal with the horrific and long-lasting effects of such a horrible event!

If a man rapes/assaults a woman, then while 'innocent until proven guilty' of course stands in law, he also must understand this his actions toward the woman are what is responsible for any media coverage/frenzy because he CHOOSE to rape/assault! Actions have consequences.

Of course there are a few false accusations of rape, however these really are in the minority and there are thousands (millions) more cases where the victim is too scared to report anything/does report it and it isn't taken seriously/person isn't convicted!

I did go to the police
I did go to the SARC for a physical examination
I did give a statement. In fact several
I cooperated with the police for 2 years
I was one of the lucky one because the officer in charge of my case fought hard with the CPS and they agreed to charge him
I had to move because someone threw petrol over my front door whilst me and my son were asleep
I attended court to give evidence and was torn apart by a barrister who would have forgotten my name by the end of the trial
I was confused when my attacker got to sit in court and not be questioned after I went through 2 days of having every aspect of my life analysed
I sat and cried with the officer when he was found not guilty after 20 minutes

I would never tell anyone that they should go to the police and I had a fantastic experience with the kind and determined officers who worked with me. But the trial itself left me with emotional wounds that are left healing and that was 20 years ago.

I understand completely why people choose not to go to the Police having been through the process myself.

But I also I agree with those querying why they choose to speak to the media instead. I don't believe subjecting yourself to the media circus is in anyway any better than subjecting yourself to the judicial circus.

I also flatly disagree with those saying the media listen. Do the Murdoch Press really listen? Or do they just want to leech off the misfortune of others to make money and push their own agenda? They're not interested really in these women and their lives. They just want a story to sell.

Because you're trotting out a long-established line of whataboutery that essentially dismisses a victim by questioning her motives unless she behaves in a perfect, unrealistic, and very rigidly defined way.

When the official channels aren’t working (the police, the CPS, the courts) then other routes are used. It isn’t how it’s supposed to be, but what is the alternative?

This is my feeling too.